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Downdraft Manifold
- Thread starter Alpine 1789
- Start date
sunbeamowner
Bronze Level Sponsor
Update...
I have cut and pasted the latest (March 5)for those of you who have trouble getting to the English forum.
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 142
Location: SAOC 39 Surrey
New postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: Update to Manifold status. Reply with quote
This is for people waiting for the new DGV manifold that Webcon are going to be producing. I've lifted the text from my latest Spares Report.
One thing to be aware of is that Webcon are already producing a manifold that allows a 32/36 DGV to be fitted to an Alpine. The fact is you do NOT want to buy it. It is the worst type of log manifold possible. The flow pattern is execrable and the standard Rootes Solex manifold begins to look wonderful after casting your eye over this. Webcon already knew that when they saw our New Zealand manifold photos. This is why they were so keen to get involved. The only reason it is still in stock is because "our" manifold is still in development. Once it becomes real the old log manifold will quietly disappear.
This is the story..................................... Cool
I recently spoke to Martin Eva at Webcon about the infamous DGV manifold.
He wasn’t the bearer of good tidings. It seems that the first cast manifold had been examined by Alan and Peter ( the development engineers at Webcon ) and it was decided that after machining had taken place there were slight changes that needed to be made to the pattern to iron out some discrepancies.
So the manifold went back to the pattern maker to be altered before production.
The pattern maker ( a one man band that Webcon have always used ) unfortunately was hospitalised and had undergone an operation. So basically the manifold has been gathering dust for 2 months.
Martin apologised for the delay which he felt was unacceptable ( in that time Webcon have developed and brought to market a complete turnkey engine management system for another car ). He was of the opinion that they would source another pattern maker.
They were still 100% behind the project, so once again we have to wait.
It WILL happen but when, your guess is as good as mine.
If they get it right, it will be worth the wait.
Peter Pescud will chase Martin again soon.
More news wheh it breaks.
In the meantime be patient please.
Eddie.
_________________
SAOC No. 39 Surrey and South London Group.
An Engineer is someone who uses a slide rule to multiply 2 X 2, gets an answer of 3.999 and then says " sod it, 4 is close enough "
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I have cut and pasted the latest (March 5)for those of you who have trouble getting to the English forum.
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 142
Location: SAOC 39 Surrey
New postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: Update to Manifold status. Reply with quote
This is for people waiting for the new DGV manifold that Webcon are going to be producing. I've lifted the text from my latest Spares Report.
One thing to be aware of is that Webcon are already producing a manifold that allows a 32/36 DGV to be fitted to an Alpine. The fact is you do NOT want to buy it. It is the worst type of log manifold possible. The flow pattern is execrable and the standard Rootes Solex manifold begins to look wonderful after casting your eye over this. Webcon already knew that when they saw our New Zealand manifold photos. This is why they were so keen to get involved. The only reason it is still in stock is because "our" manifold is still in development. Once it becomes real the old log manifold will quietly disappear.
This is the story..................................... Cool
I recently spoke to Martin Eva at Webcon about the infamous DGV manifold.
He wasn’t the bearer of good tidings. It seems that the first cast manifold had been examined by Alan and Peter ( the development engineers at Webcon ) and it was decided that after machining had taken place there were slight changes that needed to be made to the pattern to iron out some discrepancies.
So the manifold went back to the pattern maker to be altered before production.
The pattern maker ( a one man band that Webcon have always used ) unfortunately was hospitalised and had undergone an operation. So basically the manifold has been gathering dust for 2 months.
Martin apologised for the delay which he felt was unacceptable ( in that time Webcon have developed and brought to market a complete turnkey engine management system for another car ). He was of the opinion that they would source another pattern maker.
They were still 100% behind the project, so once again we have to wait.
It WILL happen but when, your guess is as good as mine.
If they get it right, it will be worth the wait.
Peter Pescud will chase Martin again soon.
More news wheh it breaks.
In the meantime be patient please.
Eddie.
_________________
SAOC No. 39 Surrey and South London Group.
An Engineer is someone who uses a slide rule to multiply 2 X 2, gets an answer of 3.999 and then says " sod it, 4 is close enough "
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sunbeamowner
Bronze Level Sponsor
Update from SOAC English Alpine Forum
DGV Manifold Progress
Captain’s Log Stardate 14/11/2012
At last I have some good news about the DGV manifold project. Many of you will have seen an example of the first production manifold as received by Webcon at this years National at Bewl Water. Webcon in their infinite wisdom have decided that some small tweaks to the design are necessary in order to accommodate the 4 different types of exhaust manifold that were fitted to the full range of Alpines during its production run. This will ensure that most owners will have no difficulties in fitting the carb and manifold by way of a comprehensive fitting kit which takes into account the various differences.
Another slight delay is therefore inevitable now, but it does give us the chance to make some small desirable changes that were not envisaged before. However
It was decided that testing would now continue in earnest on the Webcon rolling road facility at their Sunbury HQ using their chief Carburettor and Mapping engineer to evaluate the readings and record the results scientifically using a formulated procedure.
Three of us were present for the tests which started at 10.00 am and concluded successfully at 16.00 pm. Jerome Senn, who provided his own S5 for the tests, Peter Pescud and myself, along with the two Webcon engineers. The car survived this quite gruelling test without using any oil, or suffering in any way, which is rather uplifting I find. A beautiful, warm autumn day in fact, crisp and dry, perfect.
These initial tests aimed to establish what sort of output a typical Series 5 with twin 150CD Strombergs would put out on the road. Our test car was a clean unrestored Series 5 roadster with an engine that had covered about 75,000 miles but in good serviceable condition with pretty good static compression on all 4 cylinders. Timing was established at 12 deg.BTDC. The carbs were rebuilt at home about 2 years ago and deemed to be in good balanced condition, putting out slightly lean mixtures, but within the right boundaries.
The car was put through partial and full throttle readings at speeds of 20,30, 40, etc right up to 90 mph in top gear, these were both cruising partial throttle on the flat, and uphill full throttle conditions.. All power outputs and emission readings are scrupulously recorded during this process. After testing was completed the DGV carb and manifold was fitted and the same tests rerun.
Exhaust manifold temperatures are recorded for each cylinder also on every reading.
The only differences therefore are the carb and manifold. The air is not from a forced induction system but naturally aspirated to remove this varable from the equation at this point.
Now for the good news bit, these second runs showed a minimum of 15% BHP improvements across the entire spectrum, peaking at 15.4 % at full power.
This is with jetting UNCALIBRATED straight out of the box for a 1600 cc Ford Mexico. Alan, the aforesaid engineer, will revisit the tests on the tweaked manifold to study the jetting in much more detail, since it has now been proven beyond doubt that the Alpine engine has more to give if provided with better fuel induction. No more anecdotal stories need to be told. It is there in black and white.
Oh and the comments from Jerome on the way home …………………………
“So smooth and solid, no more lumpy tickover in traffic, and on the motorway it just flies, so much fun. At last I can also relax in traffic, no more heart in the mouth handbrake stops to keep the engine idling with the throttle “
Be patient guys, it is worth letting Webcon do it their way, and getting this thing right.
Sure it takes time, but no one said it was going to be easy.
We will have a desirable product at the end of all this to keep the Alpine on the road, for the foreseeable future and provide you with more enjoyment driving your pride and joy, and much more importantly better economy too. It will pay for itself quicker the more you use your Alpine, and you will want to use it more.
Eddie Zetlein, Spares Officer.15/11/2012.
_________________
SAOC No. 39 Surrey and South London Group.
DGV Manifold Progress
Captain’s Log Stardate 14/11/2012
At last I have some good news about the DGV manifold project. Many of you will have seen an example of the first production manifold as received by Webcon at this years National at Bewl Water. Webcon in their infinite wisdom have decided that some small tweaks to the design are necessary in order to accommodate the 4 different types of exhaust manifold that were fitted to the full range of Alpines during its production run. This will ensure that most owners will have no difficulties in fitting the carb and manifold by way of a comprehensive fitting kit which takes into account the various differences.
Another slight delay is therefore inevitable now, but it does give us the chance to make some small desirable changes that were not envisaged before. However
It was decided that testing would now continue in earnest on the Webcon rolling road facility at their Sunbury HQ using their chief Carburettor and Mapping engineer to evaluate the readings and record the results scientifically using a formulated procedure.
Three of us were present for the tests which started at 10.00 am and concluded successfully at 16.00 pm. Jerome Senn, who provided his own S5 for the tests, Peter Pescud and myself, along with the two Webcon engineers. The car survived this quite gruelling test without using any oil, or suffering in any way, which is rather uplifting I find. A beautiful, warm autumn day in fact, crisp and dry, perfect.
These initial tests aimed to establish what sort of output a typical Series 5 with twin 150CD Strombergs would put out on the road. Our test car was a clean unrestored Series 5 roadster with an engine that had covered about 75,000 miles but in good serviceable condition with pretty good static compression on all 4 cylinders. Timing was established at 12 deg.BTDC. The carbs were rebuilt at home about 2 years ago and deemed to be in good balanced condition, putting out slightly lean mixtures, but within the right boundaries.
The car was put through partial and full throttle readings at speeds of 20,30, 40, etc right up to 90 mph in top gear, these were both cruising partial throttle on the flat, and uphill full throttle conditions.. All power outputs and emission readings are scrupulously recorded during this process. After testing was completed the DGV carb and manifold was fitted and the same tests rerun.
Exhaust manifold temperatures are recorded for each cylinder also on every reading.
The only differences therefore are the carb and manifold. The air is not from a forced induction system but naturally aspirated to remove this varable from the equation at this point.
Now for the good news bit, these second runs showed a minimum of 15% BHP improvements across the entire spectrum, peaking at 15.4 % at full power.
This is with jetting UNCALIBRATED straight out of the box for a 1600 cc Ford Mexico. Alan, the aforesaid engineer, will revisit the tests on the tweaked manifold to study the jetting in much more detail, since it has now been proven beyond doubt that the Alpine engine has more to give if provided with better fuel induction. No more anecdotal stories need to be told. It is there in black and white.
Oh and the comments from Jerome on the way home …………………………
“So smooth and solid, no more lumpy tickover in traffic, and on the motorway it just flies, so much fun. At last I can also relax in traffic, no more heart in the mouth handbrake stops to keep the engine idling with the throttle “
Be patient guys, it is worth letting Webcon do it their way, and getting this thing right.
Sure it takes time, but no one said it was going to be easy.
We will have a desirable product at the end of all this to keep the Alpine on the road, for the foreseeable future and provide you with more enjoyment driving your pride and joy, and much more importantly better economy too. It will pay for itself quicker the more you use your Alpine, and you will want to use it more.
Eddie Zetlein, Spares Officer.15/11/2012.
_________________
SAOC No. 39 Surrey and South London Group.
sunbeamowner
Bronze Level Sponsor
Latest fron English Web site on the new manifold
"Hi everyone, the news you've all been waiting to hear.
First the prices. This is now the pricing structure for all the various options of buying the new carb and manifold kits. All calibration work is complete and the Alpine application is now fixed.
1.Bare Manifold Only £229.27 + VAT = .............................£275.12
2.SAOC Jetting Kit £16.57 + VAT = .............................. £19.88
Primary Idle Jet (52), Pump Jet (55), Emulsion Tube (F6)
3.Insulator Block, Manifold Studs & Nuts £17.60 + VAT .........£21.12
Alpine DGV Kit £539.04 + VAT = .......................................£646.85
incl Std. K & N Filter
Alpine DGV Kit £647.48 + VAT = .......................................£776.98
incl K & N Forced Air Induction System
Please note the complete kits include EVERYTHING nothing extra to buy. The jetting kits are for people who already own a DGV, likewise the manifold studs and insulator blocks, which are service items.
There will be a kit to inspect at Spares Day as well. If you want to buy either the manifold or a kit please speak to Jerome Senn who is the official club Webcon dealer on 07831 379 415
Cash is acceptable on Spares Day if you wish to have either the manifold or a kit. No cheques though, or credit cards can be taken on Spares Day
All kits have to be paid for in advance, which is normal in business.
Jerome will handle the orders from here on in.
Get your orders in folks, first come first served."
_________________
SAOC No. 39 Surrey and South London Group.
"Hi everyone, the news you've all been waiting to hear.
First the prices. This is now the pricing structure for all the various options of buying the new carb and manifold kits. All calibration work is complete and the Alpine application is now fixed.
1.Bare Manifold Only £229.27 + VAT = .............................£275.12
2.SAOC Jetting Kit £16.57 + VAT = .............................. £19.88
Primary Idle Jet (52), Pump Jet (55), Emulsion Tube (F6)
3.Insulator Block, Manifold Studs & Nuts £17.60 + VAT .........£21.12
Alpine DGV Kit £539.04 + VAT = .......................................£646.85
incl Std. K & N Filter
Alpine DGV Kit £647.48 + VAT = .......................................£776.98
incl K & N Forced Air Induction System
Please note the complete kits include EVERYTHING nothing extra to buy. The jetting kits are for people who already own a DGV, likewise the manifold studs and insulator blocks, which are service items.
There will be a kit to inspect at Spares Day as well. If you want to buy either the manifold or a kit please speak to Jerome Senn who is the official club Webcon dealer on 07831 379 415
Cash is acceptable on Spares Day if you wish to have either the manifold or a kit. No cheques though, or credit cards can be taken on Spares Day
All kits have to be paid for in advance, which is normal in business.
Jerome will handle the orders from here on in.
Get your orders in folks, first come first served."
_________________
SAOC No. 39 Surrey and South London Group.