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Brake Servo

M

Mbgardner

Bronze Level Sponsor
I have what looks to be an aftermarket brake servo on my 65 SV, installed by some contortionist with the mounting bolts through the firewall behind/beneath the cubby. Had it repair kit installed supposedly 2 years ago. Stopped working upon start up this year. Spoke to Curt @ Classic Sunbeam. He recommended i purchase a "Lockheed" version from Moss Motors that he's been using on his SV that had application in a AH-3000 and avoid rebuilding the girling units unless you went all in with a white post resleeve rebuilt. Went to moss motors. They have 2 similar units in their catalog.
https://mossmotors.com/117-312-single-line-system-brake-servo-kit-aftermarket-11-16-bore
https://mossmotors.com/182-290-single-line-brake-servo-booster-7-8-bore
The 11/16 is on backorder. The 7/8" is available. Looks very similar to mine. And comes with this detailed installation guide that dicates angles for mounting the breather and the nose end of the of the servo.

Anybody familiar with this installation manual. My install doesn't comply with either of these requirements.
Query:
  1. could the fact on my non-compliant install be the problem with my Servo?
  2. Assuming I can remove my non-compliant servo, I will buy a new one from Moss. Is there any reason not to get the 7/8" bore version?
  3. I've seen some mounts on threads here attached with studs through the strut support or clamped around it in the corner where my current one is located. I can't say that any of those look to be compliant with the install instructions. See also
    1. .https://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/back-on-the-road.26799/post-184350
    2. and yellow & green pics below.
    3. Maybe the snout is up on them; and the breather down on the green one
  4. Went back and looked at pictures from my long gone SV with a 7" girling servo. It was upfront passenger side with snout facing toward firewall. Will have to fabricate a mount for it, but this seems to be the easiest spot to locate this smaller unit. Thoughts
  5. How strict must one comply with the install instructions.
  6. Any other reasonable effective options (Like bigger Master [ I have weber carb mod])?
Thanks,



brake servo.jpeg1779974348941.png
booster4.jpg
 
When mounting a replacement (nonOEM)

booster, make sure to mount it so NO

air gets trapped in the booster.

So, generally, the input fluid line should go

in an up ward direction.

BTW, when Deleting a booster,

you want to Reduce the Brake master

piston size, to keep the pedal pressure/

effort lower.

DW
 
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If you want to keep a booster, mounting it in the factory original position should be easier.

If you are considering deleting the booster, my recollection is the Series V brake master with a booster was 0.875" and earlier series with no booster was 0.700".

Mike
 
For those who have deleted the servo and swapped out to a .700 or thereabouts brake master, do you need to swap the wheel cylinders to match or can you run what was stock in a layer series car?
 
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I have a Holbay engine with dual side draft Webers. So I have a tight space between the side of the carb there. I had to find a particularly short master - and even not use the spacer. It is a Girling. But, if I didn't have that issue, I would consider whatever options Wilwood has to fit there. Like this one. I think the mounting bracket is the right size - but you'd have to confirm. https://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProd?itemno=260-15091

And be sure to confirm you have the right adapters so that you have the right seal between the flared brake line and the fitting.

Oh, and Wilwood did not have one that would fit my space.
 
Jay:
Would you recommend deleting the booster and using the .75" wildwood master if you would rather not mess with buy an new booster and continuing to have to rebuild them? Do you get as good a pedal with the. .75" master as with the stock master and booster?
 
Joke is on me. I actually just got my Alpine running again after a bit of a slumber. When I opened the bonnet to get things going, I saw thatI forgot that I did swap in the .75 from Wildwood! I'm 100% happy with it. I also have Tiger with stock brakes and servo. They are a similar feel. Both great. I will say that if you do a servo, make sure it has been rebuilt by someone who knows how to do it right. Don't rely on a used servo that hasn't been properly sleeved.

The hard part I recall when I did the swap, and had to take out the factory spacer, I had to make a shorter push rod. That was a pain.
 
Jay Laifman said:
Joke is on me. I actually just got my Alpine running again after a bit of a slumber. When I opened the bonnet to get things going, I saw thatI forgot that I did swap in the .75 from Wildwood! I'm 100% happy with it. I also have Tiger with stock brakes and servo. They are a similar feel. Both great. I will say that if you do a servo, make sure it has been rebuilt by someone who knows how to do it right. Don't rely on a used servo that hasn't been properly sleeved.

The hard part I recall when I did the swap, and had to take out the factory spacer, I had to make a shorter push rod. That was a pain.
Click to expand...
I just have a single weber 32/36 downdraft. If space is not an issue, you think the wildwood 3/4' bore using the factory spacer is an easy swap and fine substitute for the stock master/booster. I'm looking to simplify my life. If I have to do replace the booster, I might just rather delete it and replace the master. One and done.
 
Mbgardner said:
I just have a single weber 32/36 downdraft. If space is not an issue, you think the wildwood 3/4' bore using the factory spacer is an easy swap and fine substitute for the stock master/booster. I'm looking to simplify my life. If I have to do replace the booster, I might just rather delete it and replace the master. One and done.
Click to expand...
I'm strongly of this sentiment; it's just making sure that Wilwood is the one for us. From the measurements it seems that's the one, but I'm not expert. Personally, just waiting for someone with a .75 installed to vet it or whatever brake master they're using before investing.

I asked about this years ago and everyone was boggled that I would want to or even consider deleting it. Maybe they were more concerned with me throwing it away, knowing me I probably said as much but that's just slang for removing it from operation.

Soooo... anyone out there wish to step up and preach this gospel? lol.
 
The power booster had been removed from my SV when I got it and the original .875" master cyl was leaking and too rusty to rebuild. I installed the master cylinder specified for a non-power brake Alpine (Series II, .70" dia) and I'm quite happy with the pedal travel and feel. Still available from SS, direct swap except (if I recall correctly) the pushrods are different and the retaining clip doesn't like to come apart, but I swapped those and bolted right in. The '74 Jensen Healy I'm working on now takes just as much pedal pressure. My wife drives the Alpine and has never complained about the brakes.
Joe
 
Jay Laifman said:
Like I have now revised, I have a .75 Wilwood and it's so great it was clearly set and forget!
Click to expand...
Excellent! Just because I'm dense and paranoid and I apologize up front for both, it is the same MC that's in your Wilwood link?
 
this may sound silly, but instead of deleting or removing the booster, can't i just leave it in place with the new MC. instead of retooling the brake lines to the junction block? just a thought. any operational issues in this regard?
 
When boosters fail, they can cause the brakes to lock on or brake fluid gets lost in the booster, so the brakes will stop working once enough fluid has been lost. You need to remove a bad booster from the brake line circuit.
 
Plus one on less S___ to go bad. Hard to start going down the road of making it brake like a Honda Civic...
I'm a no booster fan. But that all said the clutch on the Tiger was wrecking my knee but got better with a 1" re bore of the Girling slave and Moss triumph piston...
 
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