1. Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

    Dismiss Notice

Anyone know where to find this manifold?

Discussion in 'Modified Alpine' started by cnalbers, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. cnalbers

    cnalbers Donation Time

    I have not seen this in the US. I have found it on a couple of supplier websites in the UK and UK ebay. Does anyone know where it's made and who makes it? Can it be found in the US?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. pruyter

    pruyter Donation Time

    This manifold looks very muchs like a manifold that belong to the so called Webcon conversion and is designed through a cooperation between both Webcon and the Sunbeam Alpine Owners Club in the UK. This conversion is supplied by Alpine Innovations i.e. Jerome Senn.

    Regards,

    Peter
     
  3. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Yes the UK webcon manifold.. Similar to design to the magnotesi one and the one made in New Zealand in the late 60s.

    They sell this manifold and as a kit with carb linkage and air filter setup
     
  4. puff4

    puff4 Diamond Level Sponsor

    Correct. I just bought one this summer and installed it this past week.
     
  5. cnalbers

    cnalbers Donation Time

    What was your setup before? Do you notice a significant difference?
     
  6. cnalbers

    cnalbers Donation Time

    Yeah, I contacted him. He wants $320 plus shipping. Ouch!
     
  7. puff4

    puff4 Diamond Level Sponsor

    It was a log-type Conversion Tuning Centre Ltd. manifold with an Italian Weber. Before that I had the dreaded Zenith-Strombergs.

    The old Weber was a vast improvement on the ZS carbs, but it never tuned well because of the manifold design - fuel tends to condense out in the log section in cooler temps, and the overall flow was lousy by design.

    I’ve literally JUST installed this new one and I’m doing a host of other repairs and component rebuilds at the same time, so it will be a couple of weeks before I give it a run.
     
  8. puff4

    puff4 Diamond Level Sponsor

    Well, how much would it cost you to cast one? ;)

    I did a lot of internal work on my motor to improve the breathing and performance... the other setups just didn’t give the engine enough air - I’m hoping this will do the job. I really don’t want to go to the expense and tuning hassle of twin DCOE’s.
     
  9. pruyter

    pruyter Donation Time

    This set works fanatastic. Just bolt it on and then only adjust the 32/36 DGV 5A Weber carburettor and drive and enjoy it. It gives an increase of about 17% more horspower, more economic driving and a stable idle. I have it installed on my Rapier series IV and I installed one on my brother Alpine series IV with a 1725 cc engine in it.

    Regards,

    Peter
     
    puff4 likes this.
  10. nsbluenose

    nsbluenose Gold Level Sponsor

    What jetting are you using in the Weber in the 1725?
     
  11. pruyter

    pruyter Donation Time

    Although the testing for this kit has been executed with the use of a 1725 cc engine the jetting is the same for a 1592 cc engine and it works! My Rapier has a 1592 cc engine and my brothers Alpine has a 1725 cc engine and we use the same jetting which comes with the kit.
    The jetting is as follows:

    Primary main jet:14o
    Secondary main jet: 135
    Primary air correction: 165
    Secondary air correction:160
    Primary idle jet: 52
    Secondary idle jet: 50
    Primary emulsion tube: F6
    Secondary emulsion tube: F6

    I use an electric fuel pump with 3 lbs/inch pressure, but this kit runs fine without problemas if the standard fuel pump is used.

    What I nearly forgot to tell is that you should better blank off the hole for PCV valve because the oil damp frustrates the mixture for cylinder 4 with the result of stalling when waiting for instance for a traffic light. It took me days to find out that the PCV valve was the culprit and later on Tim Raymond in the UK found the prove of it when his Alpine was tested on a rolling road. Jerome Senn will provide a grub screw to blank off the hole, this grub screw has the same thread as the one in the backside of the manifold where you could connect a hose for a vacuum gauge which I did. The engine breathing system can be altered in different ways.

    Regards,

    Peter
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
    puff4 likes this.
  12. nsbluenose

    nsbluenose Gold Level Sponsor

    Very useful info, thank you.
    My 1725 with Weber 32/36 runs better at low speeds and idle with the choke on very slightly. It will sometimes stall at a traffic stop. Idle is set at roughly 1100 rpms.
    Is there a particular jet I should look at first? No PVC openings, valve are properly set and timing correct.




    Although the testing for this kit has been executed with the use of a 1725 cc engine the jetting is the same for a 1592 cc engine and it works! My Rapier has a 1592 cc engine and my brothers Alpine has a 1725 cc engine and we use the same jetting which comes with the kit.
    The jetting is as follows:

    Primary main jet:14o
    Secondary main jet: 135
    Primary air correction: 165
    Secondary air correction:160
    Primary idle jet: 52
    Secondary idle jet: 50
    Primary emulsion tube: F6
    Secondary emulsion tube: F6

    I use an electric fuel pump with 3 lbs/inch pressure, but this kit runs fine without problemas if the standard fuel pump is used.

    What I nearly forgot to tell is that you should better blank off the hole for PCV valve because the oil damp frustrates the mixture for cylinder 4 with the result of stalling when waiting for instance for a traffic light. It took me days to find out that the PCV valve was the culprit and later on Tim Raymond in the UK found the prove of it when his Alpine was tested on a rolling road. Jerome Senn will provide a grub screw to blank off the hole, this grub screw has the same thread as the one in the backside of the manifold where you could connect a hose for a vacuum gauge which I did. The engine breathing system can be altered in different ways.

    Regards,

    Peter[/QUOTE]

    QUOTE="pruyter, post: 197040, member: 10093"]Although the testing for this kit has been executed with the use of a 1725 cc engine the jetting is the same for a 1592 cc engine and it works! My Rapier has a 1592 cc engine and my brothers Alpine has a 1725 cc engine and we use the same jetting which comes with the kit.
    The jetting is as follows:

    Primary main jet:14o
    Secondary main jet: 135
    Primary air correction: 165
    Secondary air correction:160
    Primary idle jet: 52
    Secondary idle jet: 50
    Primary emulsion tube: F6
    Secondary emulsion tube: F6

    I use an electric fuel pump with 3 lbs/inch pressure, but this kit runs fine without problemas if the standard fuel pump is used.

    What I nearly forgot to tell is that you should better blank off the hole for PCV valve because the oil damp frustrates the mixture for cylinder 4 with the result of stalling when waiting for instance for a traffic light. It took me days to find out that the PCV valve was the culprit and later on Tim Raymond in the UK found the prove of it when his Alpine was tested on a rolling road. Jerome Senn will provide a grub screw to blank off the hole, this grub screw has the same thread as the one in the backside of the manifold where you could connect a hose for a vacuum gauge which I did. The engine breathing system can be altered in different ways.

    Regards,

    Peter[/QUOTE]
     
  13. pruyter

    pruyter Donation Time

    I should look first for an air leak, idle should be about 800 rpm. And certainly the engine should not run on the choke with both low speeds and on idle. It shows that the mixture is to weak which can be caused by an air leak.

    Regards,

    Peter
     
    puff4 likes this.
  14. RootesRooter

    RootesRooter Platinum Level Sponsor

    So the PCV has been the stop-light stalling culprit all along. Great information!
     
  15. pruyter

    pruyter Donation Time

    Jerome Senn admitted to me, when we had a phone call about this, that the place of the PCV valve (the hole in the manifold) is a design fault which can be rectified by a kind of a adaptor but that should making rise the price of the kit to much.

    Regards,

    Peter
     
  16. Alpine 1789

    Alpine 1789 SAOCA President Diamond Level Sponsor

    Please report back when you get the car out. I will be interested hearing in how this compares to the Conversion Tuning Centre Ltd. manifold.
     
    puff4 likes this.
  17. puff4

    puff4 Diamond Level Sponsor

    Will do. May be a week or two.
     
  18. Alpine 1789

    Alpine 1789 SAOCA President Diamond Level Sponsor

    No hurry on my part!
     
  19. Tim R

    Tim R Silver Level Sponsor

    Guys,
    As Pruyter says above we found the PCV valve problem by setting up an Alpine on a rolling road. The original Series V design introduced the PCV and the load for this was shared between all four cylinders. On the Webcon development manifold the PCV screws directly into the intake for Cylinder No 4 only.
    The first car we fitted it to was a Series IV Automatic and it constantly stalled on pulling away. The rolling road guy found the problem within 30 seconds! Once the hole was blanked and the PCV valve does away with, the car ran superbly.
    We own three Alpines, two are fitted with the Webcon conversion. It replaced Strombergs on one car and a Weber 28/32 and Log Manifold on the other one. If you pair this carb and manifold with a good quality electronic ignition you can fit and forget. Maintenance on the car is reduced to setting tappets, changing oils and generally keeping things lubricated. The car simply stays in tune permanently.
    The performance is immediately and very noticeably increased, there is no more topping up oil dashpots or worrying about split diaphragms, no more running rich on cylinders 1 and 4, you just turn the key and go. My own car has a non-overdrive back axle and an overdrive gearbox, running 165/80 13 tyres. It will sit on the motorway at 80mph without complaint and shows around 2,900 revs at a steady 70mph.
    In terms of miles per gallon, we drive our cars 'enthusiastically' but consistently return 35-37mpg (UK gallons). The best full tank figure that I have achieved was 41mpg but I was running in and never took it above 60mph or accelerated hard during this time.
    The carb set up that Jerome at Alpine Innovations sells is complete, you just unbolt the old and put the new carb and manifold on. One of our cars runs on the mechanical fuel pump, the other uses a low pressure electric, both are fine. I can't recommend this conversion highly enough.
    (I have no connection with Jerome other than being a satisfied customer by the way).

    Tim R
     
    puff4 likes this.

Share This Page