Alpine Values

[Bikesandfires]

Anyone interested in having a serious discussion about why Alpine values are not in line with other collector or special interest vehicles? I'd like to hear thoughts and opinions.

Even as protective of the brand and correctness as their owners appear to be, Tigers don't appear to be as valuable as other, more common limited edition cars..ie GT350 Shelbys (easily cloned)...or Cobras (probably more kit Cobras on the road then were ever built)

 

[alpine_64]

Alpines seem to have a lower value stateside than in the UK and AU.. I think they are held back by a lack of knowledge of the brand and the fact the manufacturer vanished long ago. The people that knew them new are now getting quite senior and at some point in the not to distant future wont be driving them.

Another thing that keeps Alpine values down is the number of "beater" cars around.. so many were botched over the years to keep them running or driven into the ground as they were cheap that the cost to restore vs throw away meant they were miss-used. that is now changing.. and most here do their best to put the cars best foot forward, but many were deemed cheap oddities and became junk.

I think you are off a fair way on the Tiger values issue.. they have been steadily moving up over the past decade and are getting some results recently that i think indicate speculation rather than actual value.

The Tigers will not catch a GT350 value as they built less of GT350's, they were a true "Shelby" product and have a wide broad based appeal due to their Shelby connection.. the wide knowledge and awareness of mustangs and the fact the marque still exist.

As for a true Cobra.. they buolt less than 1000, they were rare and expensive new.. iconic and have super race pedigree.

 

[1fineAlpine]

Values

I have noticed that when telling people about my Alpine I just bought, that very few people know what they are. And by very few, it's like 1 out of 10 know what an Alpine is. But 7 out of 10 know what Tigers are. Now when telling people about my car, I say "have you ever heard of a Sunbeam Tiger?" and most say yes. Then I explain that my car is the 4cyl version of the Tiger (though I have a 302ci swapped into mine).

I think like alpine_64 said, a lack of knowledge isn't helping Alpines, or other Sunbeams, values very much. But I think as time goes on, these cars will attract more and more attention. When I was trailering mine home from Oregon after I bought it, it drew a small crowd at almost every gas station we stopped at, and I was more than happy to talk about, and show off the car because they were so interested in it and because 90% didn't know what it was and thought it was "freaking awesome" haha.

But I'm not all that sure on value issues. I'm pretty new to Sunbeam ownership, but it seems to be a great community so far!

-Kyle

 

[Warren]

Values in general

I started a response to this thread but want to avoid a dust up and re hash of re shelling Alpines the value of Tigers and the like BUT get in that it is getting tougher and tougher to re live our misspent youth driving and getting back either the car we wanted as a kid or what we had.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=433178

Above is a interesting read concerning the supply vs demand which really is probably the biggest component of value be it Beam or Buick.

Then you get into the Hans Christian Andersen Types who hawk a car with a salvage title and one with out and say all you need is hammer nails cobbling skill and a lack of ethics to beat it together. The enticement in the auction below is to circumvent the branding of a car that has been a total loss by a tag swap. So seller has wrecked his car, or purchased it from a guy who did,got cashed out by insurance and now wants everyone to rely on his word or a inspection that will tell the car had major damage to subsequent buyer, SURE that always happens.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes...c38d7c962&item=121212750178&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

This seller has left out a pic of the vin tag left the JAL tags and I hear he has named the tag numbers to members of the Tiger community. It's a shame that the info is not out there, so anyone buying these cars in the future knows the story and can pay accordingly.

All is not fair in Love War and used cars, and a intentional omission of material fact is ___ ____ you fill in.

Oh and by the way it is prohibited by Ebay cut and paste below, maybe report it after the vin numbers get out other than by word of mouth

eBay
File a report
Report item
Report Category
Reason for Report
info
Detailed Reason
info
The listing misrepresents the vehicle's title or vehicle identification number (VIN), or it doesn't include a VIN.
Before reporting an item, please review the eBay Listings Policies- opens in a new window or tab.

 

[65beam]

values

warren,
these two e bay tigers you refer to are ORIGINAL tigers. i'm sure if you have been around tigers you know doug that ran tiger auto. he has known these cars for several years. he probably even worked on the wrecked one.

 

[mikephillips]

Here in the states one of the problems may be because they were a relatively low power car in a period where the horsepower wars were going on so outside of SCCA they weren't really successful, in American racing terms. Few over here who aren't sports car guys know the Tulip or Alpine or other rally events where they were with class leaders when driven well. To most general americans who followed racing NASCAR and CanAm at the time would have been what they knew. And how many who might know what they are, Sunbeam, TR, MG, etc, know them from seeing them but may never have actually had one.

I'd love to see prices jump through the roof, but I don't see it happening and when those of us who had them new or were kids at the time die off they could end up like Model Ts, value peaked out.

 

[Warren]

So what

warren,
these two e bay tigers you refer to are ORIGINAL tigers. i'm sure if you have been around tigers you know doug that ran tiger auto. he has known these cars for several years. he probably even worked on the wrecked one.

I don't give a rats posterior what kind of car it is even if you use all caps. If it is a total loss, you do not get to change the tag and then pass on the car by circumventing the law and changing the tag. This auction even violates ebay's slack ass policies. Cars are worth the sum of their parts plus current condition and provenance and the ability to prove it up. Sure there are exceptions like the $90,000+ Tiger that was not a even a MK2 at auction months ago.

Yes, I have met Doug Jennings his having worked on the cars and being listed as a reference is doesn't change the facts. So what if they both are Tigers. The intent to conceal the vins from the general buying public is stated in the auction. It hurts the value of the Alpine Tiger and general car buying public to allow a salvage titled car to get a makeover, is especially one that is intentionally concealed.
Here is a nice but not fool proof tool.
https://www.nicb.org/theft_and_fraud_awareness/vincheck
Too bad there is no registry for Rustbuckets!

This thread is about why Alpine values and their Brother Tigers are what they are. Tigers are hurt by the air of uncertainty that hovers about them, just like any collector car is by a charlatan who creates a numbers matching id plate or a production oriented car creating outfit as cited earlier.

Alpines are coming up in value as parts horses for Tigers and hopefully as hot rod platforms, that was my point.

I'd tell you what I really think but not on forum.

 

[65beam]

values

thanks warren. I win the bet!!!! I said last week that there would be a west coast tiger owner say something about covering up the vin soon after the auction went live. THANKS!!!!!!!!!

 

[Warren]

Wtf

You think this is all Sin City on the Left Coast ? The guy pulled the auction, as he is a __________ hiding in the woodpile behind a ebay name. Too bad he disclosed the vins to a prospective buyer I know. The only problem is knowing where the truth starts and stops with such a person.
If you won a bet cause you knew someone like me has good character great, I will take that as a compliment, but it did take me 3 days. Sadly the vin check website did not catch the data from the insurance company that paid out, I checked.
POSSIBLY you mistake me for a guy who gives a crap what his car is car is worth. I have had old clean driver cars always, my son came home from hospital in a 1962 Volvo 122s. I drive old cars cause I have never made a car payment and cause I like em.

 

[65beam]

values

warren,
it's fun to see reactions when other folks look at old cars and they really don't want to ask what it is. behave yourself!

 

[beamcat]

Tough for people to be interested in a car they haven't heard about. Seems I often run into people who's brother in law or college roomate owned one.