George Coleman
Gold Level Sponsor
That sounds likely as well, when it stops running check the glass bowel and see if it is empty, if so maybe blackdeath? If you are using stock fuel pump!
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Enjoy.
Alpine S4 sputters and dies
- Thread starter MKo7144769
- Start date
RootesRooter
Donation Time
...The points look fine, not burned or pitted...
Not to beat a dead horse, but are they opening?
Not to beat a dead horse, but are they opening?
MKo7144769
Donation Time
thanks all, I am hoping that the "sucking" sound I hear is when the engine dies and the mechanical fuel pump is no long pumping fuel, but air is still being drawn down. Yes, the fuel bowl is empty, but I believe it is due to the mechincal fuel pump stopping when the engine dies.
Thanks all - appreciate all the help everyone is giving!
MKo7144769
Donation Time
Yes the points are opening. The car will easily start and run for about 10 minutes; about the time the temp gets to about 190F and continues to sputter. I have ordered a new coil with an internal resistor since this car still has the original "outside the coil resistor. Also new points, condensor, rotor and wires have been ordered.
As at 25 & 26, the engine has died because the float bowl is empty, the facts now, are that the pump bowl still has fuel in it when the engine quits as I understand it.
Which leads to a carburettor problem being more likely, but not excluding the fuel pump.
I would start by looking at the float bowl needle / seat mechanism, is it sticking closed ? is there some restriction in the pump to carb line ? is there a filter restricting flow between the pump and carb ? what is the pumping capacity of the pump ? have you checked the flow rate ?
If you can prove all these items are OK, then you will need to work back to the tank, just because you see fuel in the pump bowl does not necessarily mean that it is flowing at the required rate to keep the carb float bowl full; have you tried running with the fuel filler cap off ?
Having read your post again, when you say the fuel bowl is empty are you meaning the carb float bowl or fuel pump bowl ? if its the fuel pump bowl thats empty then disregard the carb queries and concentrate on the pump itself or the tank to pump feed.
MKo7144769
Donation Time
Did ck the fuel pump by taking off the fuel line to carb and getting adequate fuel. Looked at the fuel tanks and clean on the inside, no leaks around the rubber connecting the fuel tanks. Took the top of the weber carb off and the floats are clean. no obstructions. Put on a new coil with internal resistor, so I am not running the outside resistor, put in a new condensor, rotor and new plug and coil wires. Still sputters and dies once it gets to about 190F. Will idle, but when I push into the accelerator, its sucks and sputters. Could it be fuel trying to get to the carb under pressure?....although it runs fine when cold. Can make a couple of circles in my cal-de-sac that has a slight hill and does good until it warms up; but eventually will sputter.
get back to basics....
Here is my 'sure fire' way to make any Alpine run.
Step 1 Bolt on a know running 2 barrel carb intake manifold setup.Now get a small fuel tank and sit it on the cowl and put fuel gravity fed right to the carb. This set-up by passes any fuel pump/tank/ carb problems.
Ok You have now taken any quess work out of the fuel system.
Step 2 Install a known running distributor with coil and hot wire it right to the resistor. This eliminates any guess work about the ignition switch and wiring. A fresh battery with some ether and you are in business. Assuming your engine turns over then the engine has to run. I have just picked up a nice SII from Nevada.It has a stuck 1725 lump and when I get it unstuck this is exactly what I will do to make it run.
My method to free up an engine is this- Remove the rocker arms and make sure all the valves are up. A stuck one will remain down which may require removing the head. If all the valves rise to the occasion then you have a stuck ring. Remove the plugs and create a fitting from an old plug to attach to a grease fitting. Find a cylinder with the piston near the top and pump the grease to it. When it cracks loose reinstall the rocker arms and stand back while the grease gets pumped out the spark plug hole. Now go back to steps 1& 2.
Any engine that will not run has at least one of two problems- Fuel & Ignition.
Later
'Al'
Here is my 'sure fire' way to make any Alpine run.
Step 1 Bolt on a know running 2 barrel carb intake manifold setup.Now get a small fuel tank and sit it on the cowl and put fuel gravity fed right to the carb. This set-up by passes any fuel pump/tank/ carb problems.
Ok You have now taken any quess work out of the fuel system.
Step 2 Install a known running distributor with coil and hot wire it right to the resistor. This eliminates any guess work about the ignition switch and wiring. A fresh battery with some ether and you are in business. Assuming your engine turns over then the engine has to run. I have just picked up a nice SII from Nevada.It has a stuck 1725 lump and when I get it unstuck this is exactly what I will do to make it run.
My method to free up an engine is this- Remove the rocker arms and make sure all the valves are up. A stuck one will remain down which may require removing the head. If all the valves rise to the occasion then you have a stuck ring. Remove the plugs and create a fitting from an old plug to attach to a grease fitting. Find a cylinder with the piston near the top and pump the grease to it. When it cracks loose reinstall the rocker arms and stand back while the grease gets pumped out the spark plug hole. Now go back to steps 1& 2.
Any engine that will not run has at least one of two problems- Fuel & Ignition.
Later
'Al'
mccormac98
Gold Level Sponsor
Hi,
It sounds like you are getting there ...
When the engine is sputtering, does changing the choke setting help/hurt?
It sounds like the engine requires a load (the hill) in order to die. Can you get the engine to die in your driveway by just holding the throttle down?
I think you replaced the distributor cap, yes? But if not, does the cap look ok? No cracks?
Bill
It sounds like you are getting there ...
When the engine is sputtering, does changing the choke setting help/hurt?
It sounds like the engine requires a load (the hill) in order to die. Can you get the engine to die in your driveway by just holding the throttle down?
I think you replaced the distributor cap, yes? But if not, does the cap look ok? No cracks?
Bill
MKo7144769
Donation Time
The fuel bowl on the mechanical fuel pump is full and doesn't seem to go down during the sputtering. Taking the top off the carb, the bowl has fuel in it. Could it actually be getting to much gas and sputters for lack of air?
MKo7144769
Donation Time
Did take the cover off the carb. Looking insude, it has two folats and then move easily. there is a vertical pin that also moves freely inside the bowl. this must bethe idle pin??? The engine will idle ok, but once hot, it will start the sputter and die with sounds like sucking air. Do you know if there is a secondary circuit in the carb that perhaps is causing problems?
Just to clarify if you will; at #23 you say there is no fuel in the bowl, but at #31 you say there is fuel in the bowl.
So the question is - as it splutters and dies, if you lift the top off the carb, how much fuel is in the float bowl ? typically the level should be say 1/2" - 5/8" from the top cover.
The vertical pin you refer to would be needle valve attached to the float(s), this has the job of opening and shutting the fuel supply as the floats(s) maintain the correct level (1/2" - 5/8") in the float bowl, so in normal running this will be opening and closing on demand, a bit like the toilet cistern refilling after you flush.
If this level is not set, or being maintained, correctly then the engine will falter - too high a level will cause the engine to run rich or flood - too low a level will cause the engine to splutter or die.
So we clearly need to pinpoint what the status of the fuel level in the bowl is, as the engine dies to establish if this is the problem area.
There certainly is a secondary circuit which could be at fault, but as a rule if there is a problem here it will be apparent all the time.
Chuck Ingram
Donation Time
One thing I have to ask is did you change the fuel filter.A bad filter will drain back a bit and allow the engine to start.Then it will soon be plugged again.Might run if no demand on the engine.So soon as there is a load it dies
MKo7144769
Donation Time
I did trace the fuel line from the tanks on the side of the fenders to the central line running tothe fuel pump looking for "bad" connections. There is no fuel filter in-line. The only filter is the one in the mechanical fuel pump.
I will run the car today, wait for it to sputter and die, then look in the carb fuel bowl.
MKo7144769
Donation Time
I did replace the points, condensor, rotor. The cap was not replaced, but I do not see any cracks.
MKo7144769
Donation Time
Well. I took the cover off the weber carb after it sputtered and died. There was les then a 1/8" of fuel in the carb bowl. I also had a friend hold the fuel line where it pushes on the carb and cranked the engine over. It spurted once and no more fuel came out. Must be residue in the line after it dies and puts enough fuel in the carb bowl to startup and run for awhile and then no additional fuel shows coming out. Does this sound right? If so, looks like I may either need a rebuild kit or a new pump. I would like to stay with the mechanical pump and try to be as original as possible.
George Coleman
Gold Level Sponsor
You should be able to look at the fuel pump glass bowl and see if the gas is flowing to the carb.!
If the car stops running getout and check it as soon as it happiens. I had this problem and the car stopped and would set for awhile and strat up, when I looked at the fuel pump bowl it was empty and slowly it would fill up, turnes out I had black paint from the tanks in the fuel line.
If the car stops running getout and check it as soon as it happiens. I had this problem and the car stopped and would set for awhile and strat up, when I looked at the fuel pump bowl it was empty and slowly it would fill up, turnes out I had black paint from the tanks in the fuel line.Well I think you are on a winner here, well done. My next step would be to replace the pump to carb line in its entirety; if the problem still exists then you are probably looking at replacing the fuel pump.
However before you remove it, look to see if it has a manual priming lever at the underside of the pump (original pumps were fitted with this device), if so you can manually pump whilst having the float cover removed to see what the results are, this should positively prove whether the pump is working effectively or not.
Another check, before you pull the pump, would be removing the filler cap and then check the pump output, there is a possibility that the tank is not vented to atmosphere with the cap on.
This makes it very hard for the pump to pull fuel form the tank, and you then finish up with a large vaccum in the supply line which will disappear once the engine stops running. The next time you start up the pump will probably pull enough fuel to fill the carb until the vaccum reforms and it quits on you again
MKo7144769
Donation Time
I did run the car with the fuel cover un-hinged. I should think that this should eliminate that idea,BUT....just in case as a follow-up, I see a pin hole on the inside of the fuel cover in the middle of the center unit that moves by spring action. Should this hole be cleared or drilled out?
There is no priming level, even though it is a AC pump, it must have been replaced at some time, although it does have the upside-down glass bowl. I would like to rebuild it, SS offers a rebuild kit for around $23, although there is no priming level, I'll have to ask if the rebuild parts are the same.