bulldurham
Platinum Level Sponsor
Does anyone know the factory depth of the guide on the cylinder head? I am looking at one and the depth appears to be about 1.5 mm.
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Enjoy.
Alpine cylinder head
- Thread starter bulldurham
- Start date
Barry
Diamond Level Sponsor
If you are referring to the "wear bars", I vaguely recall some old posts suggesting that the factory original depth was about 0.065". If so, a depth of about 1.5 mm (about 0.060") would suggest a head that has not been appreciably "decked".
I don't recall seeing anything about the wear bar depth in the WSM's.
bulldurham
Platinum Level Sponsor
That is good to hear. There are some suggestions this engine has never been taken apart but it does have the
N0. 4 cylinder issues.{ 1592 engine }
Thanks
N0. 4 cylinder issues.{ 1592 engine }
Thanks
fastfrontier17
Donation Time
What are the #4 cylinder issues you speak of?
puff4
Platinum Level Sponsor
All of the Alpine alloy-head engines suffer from #4 overheating, and as the cubic capacity and compression ratios increased, so did the problem. It was further exacerbated by the removal of the rear water outlet in the head on the later Zenith-Stromberg models. The head's combustion chamber in #4 will very often look like it's had considerable corrosion, but it's not corrosion... it's pitting due to bits of carbon overheating and burning away the alloy. The pistons can also have similar damage in extreme circumstances.
bernd_st
Bronze Level Sponsor
Kevin,
4th cylinder overheating is an issue with the Rootes alloy head engines, but rather thought it's mainly because of less cooling efficiency in the rearmost block area plus loads of crud collecting there. Never encountered this issue with carefully cleaned up blocks ( freeze plugs out & loads of pressurised water)...
4th cylinder overheating is an issue with the Rootes alloy head engines, but rather thought it's mainly because of less cooling efficiency in the rearmost block area plus loads of crud collecting there. Never encountered this issue with carefully cleaned up blocks ( freeze plugs out & loads of pressurised water)...
puff4
Platinum Level Sponsor
Well, you're correct in that with time the blocks on most engines do silt up and it mostly silts at the back of the motor where there is less turbulence. As such, the Alpine engines do have that problem. However, the design of the Alpine head is such that it has some inherent cooling insufficiency, and silting up of the block makes this problem even more evident. With a properly cleaned block, yes, the problem will be minimal... but as we all know, these engines don't stay silt-free for very long... and it doesn't take much silting to bring the issues to light. In particular, it can be heard in the pinking of the #4 cylinder on hard acceleration.
bulldurham
Platinum Level Sponsor
I have been banging on the 4 piston and so far it has not budged. This is after using a lot of PB Blaster.
1-3 came out w/ little resistance and look to be in ok condition. No. 4 had a lot of debri in it as well as
the wall above the piston is coated w/ what looks like rust but very hard and built up. Feels as if the piston
has become one w/ the cyl. wall.
My question is whether or not the block is worth saving??
1-3 came out w/ little resistance and look to be in ok condition. No. 4 had a lot of debri in it as well as
the wall above the piston is coated w/ what looks like rust but very hard and built up. Feels as if the piston
has become one w/ the cyl. wall.
My question is whether or not the block is worth saving??
bernd_st
Bronze Level Sponsor
Nowadays every Rootes block is worth saving and a good engine workshop can - in worst case - install liners enabling good access to clean out any silt/debris from the water channels.
@Kevin: If you did a good clean up of silt/debris & use a good antifreeze the problems will -at least according to my experience- not re-occur. What the blocks/heads don't like however are longer standstill periods potentially allowing corrosion to build up again...
@Kevin: If you did a good clean up of silt/debris & use a good antifreeze the problems will -at least according to my experience- not re-occur. What the blocks/heads don't like however are longer standstill periods potentially allowing corrosion to build up again...
sunalp
Diamond Level Sponsor
More than likely, you'll be looking at new pistons anyway, so you can turn the engine upside down (assuming it's on a stand)
and use a long chisel to actually break the piston top. I've had a few seized engines that I had to do this with and it
doesn't take all that much to break them. The rest will come out as well. You're probably going to need to bore the block,
but it's a good idea to have it magnafluxed to check for cracking. Also check the coolant side of the block for cracking
By the way, use a BFH when hitting these, they need a bit of jarring to crack them loose.
Hope that helps!
bulldurham
Platinum Level Sponsor
Guess I'll do some more hammering before cutting but as before, not hopeful.
Plan to use it w/ an OD trans in my 62.
Plan to use it w/ an OD trans in my 62.
puff4
Platinum Level Sponsor
Have you tried a 50/50 mix of ATF and Acetone? Try soaking it with that for 24 hours, with repeated soakings during that time. If it doesn’t bang loose after that, then I’d apply heat to the piston crown with a torch… not enough to melt it, but enough to get it hot… then let it cool and give it another whack.
bulldurham
Platinum Level Sponsor
haven't tried that mixture , yet, but I hear it is very good.
With heat, is it better to heat the cylinder from w/in the block or just heat the piston?
With heat, is it better to heat the cylinder from w/in the block or just heat the piston?
alpine_64
Donation Time
Kevin,
A comon issue often found in the rootes blocks during the rebuilds is a large amount of casting flash and even solidified sand from the original build process, this restricts the cooling flow in the rear passage.. You can break it off with some dremel or heavy wire brushing..
puff4
Platinum Level Sponsor
Absolutely. When I last rebuilt my Alpine engine I had the block tanked and also blasted the passages with an air/water jet. During that process, I found loose pieces of casting flash rattling around in the water jacket… and I’m not talking small bits, I mean several inches long… got them out with hemostats.
alpine_64
Donation Time
New cylinder heads????
Ive seen 3 NOS ones for sale globally since 1998
Knightowl61
Gold Level Sponsor
I thought I had a solution to my shaved heads with a thick gasket on ebay
Cometic C5515-066 .066in MLS-5 HEAD GASKET (Fits: Sunbeam Alpine)
Further research shows it't for the Tiger, and Cometic only shows a Tiger listing.
Cometic C5515-066 .066in MLS-5 HEAD GASKET (Fits: Sunbeam Alpine)
Further research shows it't for the Tiger, and Cometic only shows a Tiger listing.