alpine_64
Donation Time
Yes... They say lots of incorrect stuff ..... That's why they bought an Alger
-
Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.
If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.
Enjoy.
Alger wearing Tiger tags VIN B9470054 JAL 550014
- Thread starter volvoguys
- Start date
spmdr
Diamond Level Sponsor
For me, ALL early Tigers are of interest, if for no other reason,
because they are not well documented by Rootes.
FYI, #54 is listed in the "Book of Norman" as having paint code 53,
one of a group of cars in that number range with 53.
...not that the BON is Anywhere Near 100% accurate...
But it is interesting IF the VIN tag is in error/typo and it should be
53 OR if the 57 is unseen/undocumented in usual Tiger paint codes, BUT is REAL.
I'm not making a statement of this car's "Tiger" status, however,
It looks like an Original TIGER VIN tag WITH 57.
DW
because they are not well documented by Rootes.
FYI, #54 is listed in the "Book of Norman" as having paint code 53,
one of a group of cars in that number range with 53.
...not that the BON is Anywhere Near 100% accurate...
But it is interesting IF the VIN tag is in error/typo and it should be
53 OR if the 57 is unseen/undocumented in usual Tiger paint codes, BUT is REAL.
I'm not making a statement of this car's "Tiger" status, however,
It looks like an Original TIGER VIN tag WITH 57.
DW
Last edited:
DanR
Diamond Level Sponsor
DW my Maroon colour code 70 Alpine is also "not Listed" according to the experts.
But, as can be plainly seen in the below pics the Data Plate has 70. I am not disputing the colour code,
But, as can be plainly seen in the below pics the Data Plate has 70. I am not disputing the colour code,
Attachments
There’s a lot more to this story:Not really https://www.fastlanecars.com/vehicles/3992/1965-sunbeam-tiger
They did send me an email,
New message from: fastlaneclassiccars (215
)
Thank you for the message, John. We are looking into the matter.
In short, a guy in Oregon named Mackey knowingly bought this car as an Alger around September 2023. For 10 months he tried to pass it off as a Tiger on the Sunbeam Tiger FB group and blathered about how the car was better than 99% of all Tigers. But multiple pics he posted over months revealed details questioning authenticity and quite a few respected people in the community called him out. A few weeks ago, the car was noticed for sale as a Tiger on the FastLane Classic Cars website and a link was posted on the FB Sunbeam Tiger/Alpine Classifieds group. Mackey spotted it, became defensive and within a day he deleted everything related to the car on Facebook.
Multiple people have contacted FastLane that the car is an Alger and included links to the Hyman sale and the discussion on FB Classifieds. FastLane then joined the group and shortly afterwards the car went up for sale on eBay as a Tiger, was pulled and next day reposted ...... only to be pulled again as “no longer available”.
Its indisputable this car was sold by Hyman Motors late last year as an Alger. Early on, Mackey admitted it wasn’t a Tiger and has passed it on to FastLane, who has been informed the car is a clone yet continues to list it on their site since July as a “Beautifully Restored Tiger”. Just recently, they changed their description by adding it “has not been certified by TAC” and deleted "Registered in The Book of Norman", presumably to insulate themselves from liability should an unsuspecting buyer find it to be a clone when getting it TAC’d. Here's a snip I took of the original description before they changed it:
Here's how the description reads today:
In case you're interested, below is a link to the Classifieds group discussion about the car. You’ll need to scroll down to Jim’s September 1, 2024, post and click 'comments' as well as 'replies' to get the full story.
Log into Facebook
Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com
Yep - I'm one of those. Original owner of my car told me the whole story - he bought a Tiger in '75 and crashed it. Bought an Alpine and swapped over what he had to in order to make it all work. Car still has Tiger VIN and JAL tag on the original firewall, it's registered with the state as a Tiger, but there's more Alpine than Tiger anymore and would never have a chance of being authenticated. I got the car for free so I'm 100% fine with that. For me, knowing the whole story and being able to legitimately explain the VIN and JAL is more interesting anyway. It's noteworthy that the previous owner did tell me to never try to pass it off as a Tiger. He's a stand-up guy who only had the car in this configuration because he loved driving it and it was easier to deal with the DMV by keeping the Tiger VIN. It currently has no badging on it, and I'm planning on badging it as an Alpine but with a 289 motif...
twautomotive
Silver Level Sponsor
Here's a link to all the Rootes color codes. 57 and 70 are listed. On a side note - Are all Tiger VIN plates lowered alpha-numeric stamped, and all Alpines raised alpha-numeric stamped?
RootesRooter
Gold Level Sponsor
So you've got the original firewall and scuttle plate with VIN and JAL attached? How about the tunnel? The post is long-lost, but I recall reading of just such a combo that was successfully TAC'd. Still have the original Tiger drive train? They have several TAC-traceable numbers as well.
There's Tigers out there that have been re-skinned once and even twice to repair their drivers' boo-boos. Sounds like yours is at the extreme end of the spectrum but it wouldn't hurt to ask the TAC pros before you slap on some Alpine script.
The motor was swapped at some point for sure. VIN indicates it's 1966 Mk1A which should have a 260, but the casting numbers indicate it's a 289 and it has 302 heads. I believe the transmission is original. I guess I could hit them up to get a full picture. At the very least, it'll probably fill in some gaps in the story, and if there's an outside chance of getting an authentication, even better! I'm happy with the outcome either way - it's just so much fun to drive down PCH. Thanks for the tip!
Warren
Bronze Level Sponsor
I believe I dropped by to see the car... IMHO it's a decent car but very little done to make it pass for a Tiger. Some of your unused Tiger bits can be sold off for more beer making
alpine_64
Donation Time
Tom..Here's a link to all the Rootes color codes. 57 and 70 are listed. On a side note - Are all Tiger VIN plates lowered alpha-numeric stamped, and all Alpines raised alpha-numeric stamped?
Are you asking if all the tiger VIN are stamped from the top face and Alpines stamped from the rear ( embossed / raised lettering)?
All Tigers mki/ia/II are stamped.
Alpines only starter having the embossed ViN from series IV.
Yep! Rainy day if I remember right. I'm gonna keep driving it whatever the outcome. It's a fun car regardless of the pedigree or lack thereof!I believe I dropped by to see the car... IMHO it's a decent car but very little done to make it pass for a Tiger. Some of your unused Tiger bits can be sold off for more beer making
alpine_64
Donation Time
Enjoy the car and have fun, it does sound like it's an Alger, but you got it for the right price... Being an Alger means you don't have to fret any devaluation from customising it the way you want so you can really make it into the toy you want... And a sunbeam roadster with a V8 is a great starting for smiles
In your case, you and the OP fully disclosed what the car is and aren't trying to fraudulently pass it off as an authentic Tiger to sell it. But the car mentioned in this post is a different story:
Last weekend I got a call from a buddy who'd mailed a scathing letter to FastLane that the car was a clone, included links to prove it and warned of potential liability. In less than a week the car disappeared from their site, too.
But now, the car has reappeared and is up for auction next week in Biloxi MI. by Vicari Auction Company based in Louisiana. It is still claimed to be a "Beautifully Restored Tiger" and it's near certain the originality issue wasn't mentioned to Vicari.
1965 SUNBEAM TIGER For Sale at Vicari Auctions Biloxi Fall, 2024
At Vicari's Upcoming Biloxi Fall, 2024 Auction, is Lot:F349 – a 1965 SUNBEAM TIGER – Body:CONVERTIBLE Exterior:AZURE BLUE Interior:BLUE Transmission:4-SPEED MANUAL Engine:260CI V8
www.vicariauction.com
The guy in Oregon who bought it in August 2023 had deleted 100's of comments and pics of the car on his FB page after it was proven last month to be a clone. They have since been restored but edited, apparently to hide his tracks.
These are some pretty slimy behaviors!
alpine_64
Donation Time
The sunbeam community is all the better not having Tim in it.... he bought the car from a dealer knowing it was a rebody... Jumped onto the various sunbeam groups saying he'd got the car for a steal and was one of the best restored tigers around... Car had problem after problem .. he ignored all knowledgeable advice ( id suspect that motor still has issues) he then talked about how much profit he could make if he sold it ... And apparently suckered this dealer into it... At least it didn't get passed off to an enthusiastic classic car guy... But hopefully it will be exposed for what it is.