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A new level........

alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
Sownman said:
Times change, supply, demand, and inflation work their magic
Click to expand...

Lately i have been thinking Tigers may be at their peak.. 70's cars are really kicking on in value as are 80's cars.. the key indicator is usually historic racing.. and those newer classes are becoming more popular.. as are the values of those cars.. 50's cars are begining to drop a little.. and 40's earlier.. that market is dying off.

Tigers are a relatively obscure car.. they are not a mustang, comaro or cobra.. so perhaps in another 10 years the values will have leveled out.. maybe dropped as the baby boomer group move on so to speak.
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
new level

michael,
us baby boomers will turn our cars over to a younger generation. it would surprise you how many second generation beamers are showing up at meets here on the east coast. most of them grew up behind the seats of a beam.as the one in our family has said many times," i have to drive ,i don't fit back there anymore "
 
A

agmason

Donation Time
"Lately i have been thinking Tigers may be at their peak.. "

That has been my thought for a while. Some think Tigers are going to hit that $100,000 + level but I believe the time has come and gone. If it hasn't made it by now, it never will.
 
Alpineracer8

Alpineracer8

Donation Time
Frankly, as a Tiger owner, I would have to agree with you guys' assessment of Tiger values. I think that one of the only reasons that Tigers took off on value is because of all the press they've gotten over the past four or so years. All of a sudden, it seems like they were in all the classic car magazines and were being touted as the "up and coming" collectible sports car. Perhaps it's because the values of most of the Tiger's British contemporaries, such as the big Healey and the E-Type, had already started going up and were getting to the place where they were just not as affordable for the average "Joe enthusiast" anymore.

$100,000 Tigers? No, I doubt we'll ever see that. In fact, I don't look for them to rise much beyond the level that they have currently achieved. As far as I'm concerned, I'm satisfied with that. For someone of modest means, I consider myself lucky to have a Tiger. I've been down the road of the much sought-after collector car when I owned my '65 Shelby G.T. 350. It was fun but the value of the car got to the point where it represented so much of my net worth that it became a museum piece; I felt like I should no longer drive it. That is, of course, when I sold it. I would hate for Tigers to get to that point; I enjoy driving the car too much.
 
M

mikephillips

Donation Time
There's a lot of guys who think that once Shelby dies that they'll suddenly be sitting in 1/4-1/2 million cars like the small and big block Cobras. I personally don't see this happening for a number of reasons. One, they're not as well known and don't have the American racing heritage that the Cobras have, most Americans don't care about Alpine or Tulip or other european rally competition. Second, the Shelby connection is overblown since unlike the Cobras he didn't work on the prototype, it was assigned to others, and didn't do final assembly and sales of the cars. Third, there's more originals, but no kit car market that would introduce a familiarity and desire in those that aren't already aware of them. I could go on, but you get the point.
 
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
65beam said:
michael,
us baby boomers will turn our cars over to a younger generation. it would surprise you how many second generation beamers are showing up at meets here on the east coast. most of them grew up behind the seats of a beam.as the one in our family has said many times," i have to drive ,i don't fit back there anymore "
Click to expand...

I'm really glad thats happening in the USA, not sure about the situation in the UK.. but i know here in Australia there seems little follow on interest... I hope it picks up or it will be a very small club in the future with me probably owning about 30 sunbeams
 
Sownman

Sownman

Donation Time
I think as owners we need to be keeping them in public view by driving them
and by showing them. Not just showing them at Sunbeam events but at general themed car shows as well.

Just a theory on my part but I also think the high percentage of modded Tigers hurts the overall value of the breed. People say engine swaps don't matter in Tigers. I disagree. In the world of 70's cars and in fact cars in general its the great restorations and original survivor cars that do the best $ wise, not the highly modified ones. There are a lot of modified Tigers.

Steve
 
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
Sownman said:
I think as owners we need to be keeping them in public view by driving them
and by showing them. Not just showing them at Sunbeam events but at general themed car shows as well.

Just a theory on my part but I also think the high percentage of modded Tigers hurts the overall value of the breed. People say engine swaps don't matter in Tigers. I disagree. In the world of 70's cars and in fact cars in general its the great restorations and original survivor cars that do the best $ wise, not the highly modified ones. There are a lot of modified Tigers.

Steve
Click to expand...

Steve,

The reason the stock cars and matching numbers cars are worth more in regards to any marque are they are the minority.. they are the survivors or unmolested.

Tigers in my view fall into a slightly different market than most other marques.. original cars are worth the most.. and in the Tigers case are very rare as during the 70's/80's they were a cheap performance car.. they were hot rodded, bodged and thrown away... now there are few survivors.

However there were quite serious flaws in the stock cars configuartion, especially if you look at them as a sports car not grand tourer. Modifed tigers with better brakes, bigger motors, ally radiators and other subtle tweaks are often worth more than an average middle of the road "stockish" car as they are bought to drive and enjoy. Adding fender flares, 17" wheels etc will devalue them.. but keeping the car period in appearance and improving the drivability actually is appreciated.. much like a de tomaso, austin healey 3000 etc..

Mustang guys can get a bit more by "shelbying" their cars, healey guys buy "works rally or sebring" tweaks.. tiger people generally accept subtle performance mods without question much in the same vein.

Im not a big fan of 15" wheels and low profiles on tigers as they begining to get a bit modern for my tastes.. but i understand the desire for better tyres/bigger brakes. I think 14's and the brakes/tryes you can fit on/in them are more in keeping with the car.. LAT bonnets etc.. and overall do not take away from its original chraecter... terh value in a stock car will always be there.. but in Tiger culture a period modified or upgraded car will never be far behind, especially if its reverseable.

Just my .02c
 
Series3Scott

Series3Scott

Co-Founder/Past President
Platinum Level Sponsor
alpine_64 said:
I'm really glad thats happening in the USA, not sure about the situation in the UK.. but i know here in Australia there seems little follow on interest... I hope it picks up or it will be a very small club in the future with me probably owning about 30 sunbeams
Click to expand...

My two boys, ages 10 and 5, are very anxious to inherit Daddy's two Alpines when they get older. I've done my job for the next generation. Whenever I take them out in the Series 3 they just grin, and my 10 year old keeps muttering "I just love this car". :D
 
Limey

Limey

Donation Time
I am an Alpine person and regard Tigers as an interesting Alpine variant. Why is it that Norm won't republish??? '''Love your Tiger and love your fellow Tiger owners''? Republish and be loved; why doesn't he???
 
Sownman

Sownman

Donation Time
It wouldn't surprise me to see Vol 2 in the future. Probably contain Vol 1
and the info he has gathered since. He stays very current with the registry.

You could always send him an email and ask.

http://www.rootes1.com/
 
A

agmason

Donation Time
"Why is it that Norm won't republish??? '''Love your Tiger and love your fellow Tiger owners''? Republish and be loved; why doesn't he???"

I asked Norm why he didn't do a second printing of his book. His answer is that all the plates, files, etc were lost when the publisher went out of business. This also happened to "The Tiger Press" magazine he used to publish. A friend of mine wanted to sell a copy of Norm's book on DVD with most of the proceeds going to Norm but he said no. Norm's attitude seems to be get it while you can. If you missed out, too bad.
 
puff4

puff4

Platinum Level Sponsor
dude234 said:
I asked Norm why he didn't do a second printing of his book. His answer is that all the plates, files, etc were lost when the publisher went out of business.
Click to expand...

That's horse-hockey. Yes, they may indeed have lost the plates, etc. but it would be quite easy to use modern OCR software to scan that document in and quickly put it into and electronic and hence re-publishable format. The photos may not be absolutely perfect, but they'd be dang close.

Who knows, maybe he just likes being the author of the most obscenely expensive and somewhat outdated reference book in the business... or maybe by letting this one get so silly-priced in the market he will then be able to market "Volume 2" at an equally ridiculous price. I won't speculate as to his motives... but it does seem a bit self-absorbed to not just do a second printing. Authors do it all the time. And it would give him a chance to fix the errors, omissions and new information that it needs.
 
Sownman

Sownman

Donation Time
Norm told me quite a while ago that he feels a reprint of Vol 1 would have an audience of about 200. I think he is low in that but not far off. There are 3500 or so surviving cars and currently 1000 books. You're not going to sell many Book of Norman's to people that don't own Tigers. So you go to the effort for a reprint with the original material lost, to sell a couple hundred books and piss off the current 1000 owners that think of the book as a retirement nest egg. You're off base with calling Norm self obsessed. He spends a great deal of time keeping the registry, answering emails and educating newcomers. He spent many hours helping me in my search for a car and refused to even accept a restauant gift card. Norm is not making the $1000 these books trade for. New, weren't they $50 ? Total gross $50,000
against what expense and how many hours research and writing ??

Steve Ralsten
 
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