65 SIV V8 conversion

[1fineAlpine]

Hello everyone, I am new to not only the forum, but to the Sunbeam world as well. My mom used to date a guy in the 80's who raced a very hopped up Tiger, and from her stories about the car my interest sparked and I eventually got an Alpine with a 302ci V8 Ford already in progress. I've only had the car for a week now, and spent most the time sealing the floors and other spots to make sure rust won't start during winter. It's been raining and cold where I am for a while now so I haven't worked on the car much, but I'm about to gear up for what I can do during the winter once I store my Corvette so I can use my garage for the Alpine. The car is very complete, but mostly disassembled. I will ask more "how to assemble" questions next year after I paint everything, but my main questions for now are, what would be a good axle to use for the V8? I did lots of reading on various google searches, but most people were just starting out and most answers led to a V6 swap instead (which are awesome, but I'm gonna stick with the V8 on this car). The transmission is a T5 (year and donor car unknown, but prob doesn't matter much?) I'd like to go with a 5 lug so I can have a larger variety of wheels, and with that, what can be done to the front to convert to a 5 lug as well? And for the larger motor, what springs are recommended? I'm not sure if they were changed already or not? They seem to handle the weight pretty well, and wheel well has a nice amount of room, but I don't wanna have something screw up while driving. Sorry about writing a book before my questions, just trying make sure I have some details to help with the answers. Thanks in advance!

-Kyle

 

[Series6]

Kyle

Welcome to SAOCA. I switched my project car to 5 lug for the same reason. Our member Procraft did it to me but I'm sure a competent machine shop can do it. We used the Ford pattern.

 

[birdfan56]

rear end choices

welcome Kyle, a ford 8" works well and you just need to have the axles trimmed to match your alpine rear end width. that way you have the 5 lug rear and only have to have the front hubs re-drilled for the ford 5 lug pattern...it opens up a much larger variety of wheel choices and sizes. it's MUCH easier to find 15" tires than it is to get 13" anymore. You are in for a fun and rewarding project. Kevin

 

[Warren]

Lovely creatures with heart transplants

http://www.britishv8.org/British-V8-Current-Issue.htm

I have seen several that have spoken of a narrowed Ford 9'' rear end. Tigers have Dana 44's

The mother of all Algers is on ebay it has a Alpine vin tag on it but is badged as a Tiger and represented as one go figure. Really nice build really nice presentation but needs a disclaimer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes...c36cd5e60&item=121178512992&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

 

[1fineAlpine]

Rear axle

Thanks for the info guys! That's quite the coincidence Warren, I actually saw that and read all the info about an hour ago. I can't believe a 427 fits that well in there even with its tube chassis. And I totally forgot that I read about having my front hubs re drilled for a five lug. Looks like I will be shopping for an 8 or 9 inch rear end. I think I'll keep a Ford pattern up front as well just to simplify things, and I won't forget what it's got since I've got other cars to remember too haha. And Series6, I bought my car from Tigard OR. and hauled it through Portland last Wednesday with a big smile on my face as everybody at the lights was checking it out and at every gas station a few people would come up scratching their heads trying to figure out what it was. It's weird but not too surprising that most people are more familiar with Tigers than Alpines. But the attention it's getting just sitting as a project is helping me keep motivated to get her back on the road. I'm hoping to be driving it by next summer, since the hard part is done, just needs my fabricator buddy to spend a few hours suring up previous work, and ill keep wrenching on what I can. Thanks again guys!

-Kyle

 

[DanR]

That 427 didn't just fit in there.... That car is a complete make over.

Basically the only thing Sunbeam Alpine is the outer body shell with "tiger" attached.

On the process you are speaking on putting the 302 in your car ... remember the cross member is to be removed.

Look carefully before you go that route.

 

[1fineAlpine]

Rear axle

Dan R, ya I seen that. That's a lot of work, but looks like it would be quite the experience to drive. As far as my car goes, the 302 is already sitting in my car, mated to the T5 tranny. Is the cross member removal only necessary for the initial fitting, or am I going to have to do other stuff with it? On a side note, my steering has also been converted to rack and pinion, but I am going to be redoing the setup and possibly doing the MGB swap I've been reading about in other cars. I've also read about people using a mustang R&P, but not as common as the MGB. I'm pretty new to steering altering, but if I have issues I know some people that can help, I just don't know anyone who has done a swap like this so I figured I'd better ask some questions from experienced people before I dive in and do things harder than they should've been done, haha.

 

[DanR]

When I made the caution on the crossmember I did not realize you had the rack&pinion and the 302 all ready mounted.

Keep asking questions from these forum members and someone will come to the rescue.

I'm converting one of my '65 SIVs to the ford V6 2.8 using Jose's Kit. It is bacically a sit in process, especally to an old hand. Jose and many others on the Forum willagrees it is an easy conversion. Less expensive and a fast little car with out the "heavy" ride.

 

[1fineAlpine]

Rear axle

A lot of the Alpines I've read about mentioned the Jose V6 swap. I think that's really cool he made such a reliable/easy kit. If I had received this car uncut for the V8, the stuff I've read about the V6 swap would most likely have made me change my mind. I read that they can be built to out perform V8 swap Alpines, and even modded Tigers. Some of the things that led me to my V8 swap was that I'm building the car to surprise my mom from the days she raced with her ex in his modded Tiger, and the price of my car seemed very reasonable for the car having every part (minus front bumper) including the old convertible top, a tonnue cover with the zipper, and a new in box replacement convertible top. Dash had all guages and wiring and in great shape. No body cancer and only one small ding on a fender. And seeing it already had the swap in process I had to have it. I was skeptical driving 400 miles to get it with only a few pictures and some info from the owner, but after my buddy who went with me inspected it he said go for it. Also, I hadn't heard about the V6 swap kits until after I got my car. Another thing too is that I didn't see any other Alpines for sale in my price range, and almost considered looking for a Triumph or MG, but figured I'd enjoy surprising my mom and stayed Sunbeam. Glad I did! Haha.

 

[MikeH]

When I made the caution on the crossmember I did not realize you had the rack&pinion and the 302 all ready mounted.

Keep asking questions from these forum members and someone will come to the rescue.

I'm converting one of my '65 SIVs to the ford V6 2.9 using Jose's Kit. It is bacically a sit in process, especally to an old hand. Jose and many others on the Forum willagrees it is an easy conversion. Less expensive and a fast little car with out the "heavy" ride.

You mean 2.8, right?

 

[Chuck Ingram]

That 427 didn't just fit in there.... That car is a complete make over.

Basically the only thing Sunbeam Alpine is the outer body shell with "tiger"

I have seen the pictures of this car before.I,think the engine is too far forward which will give some steering grief.Remember Ian Garrard and Ken Miles first conversion steered heavy as the engine sat forward of the firewall.Shelby was the one to sit the engine back and made it work like we know the Tiger as is

 

[Cactusmasher]

V8 Alpine

A lot of us use cut to size 8 inch Ford rear ends ( 5 lug ) for our V6 swaps. It is plenty strong enough for the V8 being as the Alpines are so light. Go to the Borg-Warner web site and look up the number on the tag on your 5 speed. It can tell you what year it is, whether or not it is a "World Class" model and exactly what gears are inside it.As for 5 lug front hubs, some guys re-drill them to a 5 lug pattern but there are some hubs that already fit. Might check the Tiger section on this forum and search for prior articles regarding the front hubs. Changing an Alpine into an Alger ( what a lot of Sunbeamers refer to the Alpines made into faux Tigers as ) is no easy feat and not for the meek or the poor. Plan on lots of time making the alterations and spending a lot of cash to make this happen. The easy answer is to build a V6 conversion. Less headaches, less problems and less cash outlay. The end result of a V6 conversion is a fast, well handling car with more horsepower that an original Tiger. Tigers can be ill handling and have a very hot interior because of the big V8 in the engine bay. If you have never driven a Tiger you should before you take on trying to build a facsimile car.
Original Tigers came with a 164 horsepower V8. Our V6 cars generally have a lot more than that, and with the original steering set up, handle quite nicely. Yeah, I know the sound of that big nasty V8 is a thrill, but when you add up all the negatives inherent to Tigers, is it really worth it? Only you can decide. Having owned 3 Tigers and 13 Alpines ( 2 of the V6 conversions ), I am not an expert, but I do know a little bit about the two cars. Good luck and I hope it works out for you.

 

[Series6]

What they said! I love mine so much I'm building a second one...

You can push plenty of ponies thru the 2.8 Ford V6. Ask Kelly. And end up with a car that's a joy to drive.

 

[Chuck Ingram]

What they said! I love mine so much I'm building a second one...

If I was building another Sunbeam I would go one more time with the V6
Ours at 170 HP was definitely a great car

 

[DanR]

MikeH, 2.8 is correctand! My finger mis-typed a "9"

Thanks for the Question?

I corrected my previous post.

 

[1fineAlpine]

V8 swap

Thanks for all the responses guys! Yes a V6 sounds like the definit way to go on these cars, but my Alpine has already been fitted with the 302 and T5. Basically all I have to do at this point, is swap the original rear end out that the previous owner left in the car, and fabricate some headers. Well, I also need to reinstall my dash, heater core and everything related to the heater, carpet, and paint the car. Having a lack of Alpines for sale close to my area, less than 2k play money in my pocket, and a trip to Hawaii planned for the first week of December, I didn't have many choices on project cars in my budget. So finding this car with the V8 swap already done (just needs the final touches done) seemed like a do-able project for me. I should be able to get this car finished (or at least drivable) by next summer. Now that I know about the V6 swaps, having heard about them after purchasing my car I have now, I think if I ever get a chance to get another Alpine for a can't pass up deal, then I'm gonna do a V6 for sure. Also with the heat issues, my Corvette has the same problem ever since I built the motor up in it and ran headers. It's fast as hell and sounds great, but long drives make my feet sweat a bit in my shoes. I'm pretty used to it now so hopefully the Alpine helps a bit more with that being a convertible vs my T tops on the Vette haha...

 

[1fineAlpine]

V8 swap

Oh and another thing, the guy my mom used to date with the hopped up Tiger passed away in the early 90's, and my mom just recently (like a few weeks ago) ran into his dad at the grocerie store and struck up a conversation with him. Apparently he still has his sons old Tiger just the way he left it, but hasn't had it running for years. He plans to get it going soon and invited my mom down to check it out. He has a few more (not sure if they're Alpines or Tigers) but none are for sale. And to really add to my "are you kidding me" factor, just down the road from him is a guy with multiple Tigers and Alpines that are also not for sale and hidden from public view. They're off a highway I drive down all the time to go to my dads house, and I even towed mine right by there when bringing it home and had no idea that the guys lived where they do. I'm just blown away I've been within 500ft of several Sunbeams for many years now and never once knew it. Anywho, where I'm going with this is I'm begging my mom to call the Dad and take up his offer of seeing the car, because I'd LOVE to go for a ride in it if possible. Although from what my mom told me, the motor (its had several throughout the years she knew him) is built to the extreme max and barely street legal (they got pulled over almost every time they went out because it was "too radical for the street") and the hood has a hole cut in it so itll shut because the motors so big. I don't know why a scoop wasn't fabbed, but it sounds like a scary ride . I'd also like to take notes on how my under dash components go back together. I've never been in any other Sunbeam before, and only seen 3 in person. I'm excited for this.

 

[bmohr]

Hey Kyle,
Welcome to the club! Sounds like you got a pretty good deal. Do you have any pictures? Makes sense to me that you keep going the V8 route since much of it already complete. Don't know the condition of your wiring, but if your dash is out, you might look at the replacement wiring harness developed by one of our members.

http://petesperformancewiring.com/Page_2.html

I can't vouch for it personally -- just yet, but it's on my list.

Regarding your dash, I have a template of the lower dash roll that I can send you if you PM me your snail mail address.

If you have questions about the dash layout there is a very nice diagram of LHD in the Tech Data section.

http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?categoryid=85

Likewise there are scanned manuals in that section too.

Good luck

 

[1fineAlpine]

Wiring

Thanks bmohr! I saw the harness link on a thread and its definitely gonna happen soon because my wiring is looking a little tired. Since I have to reinstall and re-wire 90% of everything, I might as well go for a new harness just to be safe. The lower dash roll you mentioned, is that the padded bar deal that runs below the steering column that I heard was hard to find? If so, mine is in almost perfect shape . And thanks for the dash layout link too! I will try to post pics of the car. I'm kind of having a hard time doing it at the moment for some reason?

Thanks! -Kyle

 

[1fineAlpine]

Pics

Forgot I had photo bucket. Lets see if this might work? I would also like to add that I have the tranny tunnel and everything already done but not installed till I get closer to finishing, and the motor looks very rough, but at least isn't seized. I can tear it down and rebuild it no prob