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3AW update

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
I threw in one of the two 3AWs I had coming and got nothing ( no dash light) . I won’t have the other one for awhile(23rd). It is possible/ probable with both parts being old that both have failed.

I tried using a multimeter and could not get a reading with key on or the car running. — probe to ground and probe to AL alternator terminal.

what I know:
the bulb works— I grounded the bulb and it came on. This tells me that power is coming through the line to the dash, but I have not seen evidence of it anywhere else along that circuit.

My alternator appears to be working in every other regard— charging and operating accessories.

questions:
Is it possible that just the AL terminal on the alternator has failed? I can live very happily without the dash light for now.

What would happen if I jumped the AL wire - bypassing the 3AW— a direct (brn/blk) wire from AL terminal to dash light? While I do not know, I am thinking this would tell be if power or a ground were blocked some where along the circuit. Although power appears to be at the dash (grounded bulb lighted) Or connect the brn/blk wires at the 3AW to bypass the it.

The plan for now is to sit tight— enjoy the driving—- and wait for the other used 3AW.

Any thinking or advice would be appreciated.
Be well

Andrew
 

bernd_st

Bronze Level Sponsor
Simple Question: Did you switch your Multimeter to low AC Mode (~20V AC), before measuring the AL output on the 10AC?
 
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Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
As I am not all that familiar with using multi meters, I tried both “red sockets” and set the dial at 200.
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
It is still dark here, but when day breaks I will post a picture of the multi meter showing how it was set.
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Are you sure the ground connection, term E, on the 3 AW is well connected to ground?

Key point: Note that the AI terminal on the Alternator does not turn the lamp ON, it turns it OFF. The lamp should light whenever the ignition is ON and the Alternator is NOT running, broken, or not generating enough. It should light even (or especially) if the Brown / Yell wire to the Alt is disconnected.

Do you have the 3AW connected correctly? What wire is connected to each terminal ?

Tom
 
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Scotty

Silver Level Sponsor
I just had this issue yesterday with my Hitachi Alt SIV and thought of you. Turned the key, no light. I had just gotten the heater slides changed thanks to the help of a friend. Thought maybe we had somehow pulled a wire out.Turned out I blew a fuse. Changed it and it came on. Are your fuses ok?
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Fuse not involved in the original Alpine Alternator wiring.

The original Alternator is wired quite differently and uses the 3AW, unlike the Hitachi. With the Hitachi, the lamp will not light if not connected to the Alternator.

Tom
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
Here are some pictures of the multi meter I am using. I tried to show the whole panel. Crossed probes reading and uncrossed probes reading. I apologize for the orientation.

I tried adding another ground wire to the 3AW and nothing happened.

I am pretty sure my wires to the 3AW are properly connected. Colors is hard to see but the wires bent toward the spades have been there a long time.

fuses look good

I understand the alternator does not turn the light on, but turns it off. QUESTIONS: what turns the dash light on? What is its power source? A few days ago, examining the light itself, there was a white/res wire at the bulb— i think it was white /red easy enough to check. Could something be amiss along that line?

Thanks all for the assistance!!!!
Be well
Andrew
 

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Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
At the start you said : "I grounded the bulb and it came on." How did you ground it? I have assumed you touched the black/brown wire to ground. Is tat correct? If not, do so now and see if it lights. If it does not light, then you have a problem between the black / Brown wire and the bulb.

If it does light when you ground the Black/ Brown wire, but does not light when you connect the black/ brown wire to the WL terminal, then you have a bad 3AW. The 3AW is a simple thermal relay. With no signal applied to the AL terminal the internal contact should connect the WL to the E terminal, grounding the Brown Black wire and lighting the lamp. Once the alt starts running and generates enough voltage, the voltage coming into the AL terminal of the 3AW heats up a tiny heater that heats the bimetal contact and opens the contacts, removing the ground connection and turning the lamps off.

Tom
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
White wires attached and hot with ignition on at the fuse box and as the two white wires enter a four spade pot metal box on the fneder.
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
Could that 4 spade alternator relay be bad? I attached an additional ground wire to the relay and that did not light the dash light either.
 

Scotty

Silver Level Sponsor
Fuse not involved in the original Alpine Alternator wiring.

The original Alternator is wired quite differently and uses the 3AW, unlike the Hitachi. With the Hitachi, the lamp will not light if not connected to the Alternator.

Tom

Gotcha, thank you for the correction, good to know!
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Acollin, Alternator relay has no involvement with light not turning ON. See my response #10
 

bernd_st

Bronze Level Sponsor
Thanks for the pictures, but hard to judge the actual switch position. Anyway and seemingly you have 2 issues:

1) Warning light needs to come on with ignition ON, no matter what
2) Unclear output @ AL

Would suggest that you check/fix those in sequence. Recheck the wiring on the 3AW again. Check whether WL input is hot with IGN ON & E is properly grounded. Disconnect both spades/wires and measure for 0 Ohm resistance between these 2. Multimeter will beep accordingly. If not the 3AW is gone, so try another one.

For 2) we' ll continue once the first issue is fixed...
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Berndt, you say :"Check whether WL input is hot with IGN ON & E is properly grounded." But if the 3AW is OK the contacts will connect the E and WL terminals thus grounding the WL terminal.

Andrew, just ground the brown / Black wire and see if the lamp lights. If so, then connect the brown /black wire to Term WL on with E terminal grounded. If it does not light, then the 3AW is bad.
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
I missed #10- sorry Tom.
That is how I lighted the dash light- test light grounded, touched bulb base with probe.Light comes on. Based on what Tom is saying, I now have two non working 3AWs.
I will check on bernd_st’s advice tomorrow whenI have a bit more time. Although the sequencing has been double and triple checked and the ground was improved. Another used 3AW is on the way although, the one I got the other day came from a working set up.

My multi meter does not beep. Will the readout go to zero with red probe in wire and black to ground?Or am I putting one probe in each wire end and looking for zero? If meter does not go to zero, the 3AW is bad?
Thanks all for your involvement
Andrew
 

husky drvr

Platinum Level Sponsor
Andrew,

Think of the 3AW as a relay switch, not a circuit being completed. The switch cuts the ground of the warning light.

The wire from AL is a hot feed - maybe ~8V AC.

The wire from the ignition switch through the warning light is also a hot feed into the 3AW, as well.

The warning light illuminates when the ignition switch is turned on because it is grounded through the 3AW.

When the alternator starts charging, The AL terminal bleeds a very small bit of current from one of the field windings and sends that current to the 3AW, through the heater strip inside the 3AW straight to ground. When that AC current heats the bi-metal strip in the 3AW can, it causes the internal switch to open that allows the warning light to illuminate - thus turning the warning light off.
 
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