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Volvo transmission

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
The one I have for installation into the '69 Alpine has a built in switch that limits overdrive engagement to 4th gear, creating a 5 speed transmission. Any thoughts as to why Volvo did that and the wisdom (or stupidity) of installing a more conventional switch allowing 3rd and 4th gear engagement?

Also, was surprised to find a 1st/2nd gear spring preload that "automatically" engages third when shifting out of 2nd. I thought that was only for speed shifting hot rodders. All in all, a very unique transmission. Perhaps Volvo did all this simply to be different?
Bill
 

phyrman

SAOCA Secretary
Diamond Level Sponsor
My old Volvo P1800S could go into OD in either 3rd or 4th. I think its to keep wear down to a minimum. Besides, there is no use for the OD to kick in in any lower gear
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
My old Volvo P1800S could go into OD in either 3rd or 4th. I think its to keep wear down to a minimum. Besides, there is no use for the OD to kick in in any lower gear
Unless you've experienced the joys of city driving in 3rd, shifting in and out of overdrive and never into 4th. So I submit there is a use for O.D. in a lower gear. Lets change your comment to "No necessity for the O.D. to kick in in any lower gear."
Bill
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
I've always found 3rd OD fun on twisty uphill roads .. Its 80% of top.. So you don't loose as much momentum as going into 4th...

Triumph used OD on 2nd gear too in the TR range cars iirc
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Bill, what trans do you have,the M41?
No idea. All I know is that it has a 1" - 10 spline input shaft and the large Laycock overdrive. A lot cast iron and heavy as Hell! The shift lever sat on a triangular nest of tubing, not a casting, Does not have a backup light switch. The speedo shaft is on the right side (ugh) . The shifter assembly (ball and shaft) are missing, but I have made new ones and moved the shifter forward 3" to match the Alpine shifter location. Also, while shifting gears, the shifting rod has very short travel. Not so sure I love the internal spring loading. Sort of weird, with 1- 2 very vaguely located. No feel at all as to their location. Against the spring, but not as far as reverse.

Bill
Oh yes, the speedo output is on the overdrive casting, not the tranny,
 
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bulldurham

Platinum Level Sponsor
Sounds like the M-41 w/ the J-type Laycock OD unit. I have the Volvo 1800 engine w/ The IPD Big Bore Kit and mild street perfomance cam
in My 63 Alpine GT. Are you planning to use the OD u nit behind a Alpine engine
As I remember Laycock first developed the A-type, moved on to a upgraded D-type used in Triumph spitfires, Alpines, Midgets, etc. then
on to the M-41 J-type which is a heavier duty unit. I have recently rebuilt a D-type from a Sunbeam . For some reason the C-clip holding the sun gear in place broke . An easy repair as the planetary gears, bearings and annulus were in good shape. All new seals were put in though.
Are you putting the M-41 behind a Sunbeam engine? If so, I would be interested in how you mate the two.

Doug
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
The plan is to put the trans behind the '69 Alpine engine. The idea behind this venture is to gain a dependable OD. Of course a leak free tranny will be nice. Mating will consist of welding the bell portion of an Alpine bell housing to the rear portion of a Volvo bell housing. I had planned to use the Volvo clutch release mechanism. Just the release part, not the pressure plate. Right now, I am concerned about pressure plate clearance. as the Volvo input shaft is about 3/4" shorter than a Series input shaft. Just realized the '69 bell housing is 2" longer than a Series housing. Bad news if all that room was needed for the pressure plate. Can you offer any words of pressure plate wisdom? Will a Series pp fit in a Volvo bell? Will the Series pp bolt onto a '69 flywheel? Any hope of using a Volvo pp on an Alpine flywheel?
Bill
 

studmobile

Diamond Level Sponsor
My experience is with a Harrington LeMans, which is basically a Series ll. It came with a Series V transmission installed, and the original transmission separate, but the original OD unit was AWOL. Supplied was a Type D OD unit from the Volvo. Mated this to the original transmission and shaft. Has a flange outlet, rather than the original splined output. Cut down an MGB driveshaft with flanges fore and aft. Have not been able to get the cap on the original speedo cable to fit the OD yet, will have to remove and send it out for a new smaller cap. Works well. The Type J is apparently more robust but also bigger, so may have clearance issues.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
My experience is with a Harrington LeMans, which is basically a Series ll. It came with a Series V transmission installed, and the original transmission separate, but the original OD unit was AWOL. Supplied was a Type D OD unit from the Volvo. Mated this to the original transmission and shaft. Has a flange outlet, rather than the original splined output. Cut down an MGB driveshaft with flanges fore and aft. Have not been able to get the cap on the original speedo cable to fit the OD yet, will have to remove and send it out for a new smaller cap. Works well. The Type J is apparently more robust but also bigger, so may have clearance issues.
WOW! Mated a Type D overdrive

My car is the later "Arrow range" 1969, which was made to accommodate the type J overdrive, so tunnel space should not be a problem. What could very well be a problem, the finished hybrid bell housing will be 1" shorter than the Series bell housing. Leading to the question, "Will that be enough?" Answer depends on variables which are unknown to me. They could be boiled down to a single measurement, the distance from the rear of the engine to the rear of the pressure plate. Just where on the rear of the pressure plate is anybodies guess.

Bill
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Just heard from good friend DanR. Very good news! The Alpine bell housing does not neck down until past the pressure plate shell. That means the project is possible.
Bill
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Probably should modify that wonder to include a transmission, or does a type J bolt onto an ordinary 4 speed? One of the many things I am ignorant of. Its looking like my costs will consist mainly of welding fee and driveshaft construction. The rest will likely come out of Dan's vast collection of used, but excellent condition parts. Its all part of our informal, but very real agreement. I help him by machining onezies and twozies of experimental parts. He helps me on everything.

Bill
 

bulldurham

Platinum Level Sponsor
J type OD's are not uncommon as mannnnny Volvos used them at least from the 120 thru the 240 range . Not sure when the M40 trans began but the J type for Volvo is a direct bolt to the M40. Same issue as w/ Alpine OD, the standard 4 spd M40 would need to be set up for the OD main shaft. To avoid that get hold of a factory OD M41. As for installing an M41 in a Alpine , it does not require cuttin the tunnel or floor. As Bill mentioned you will need to shorten the shifter carrier 3" to use the Alpine shifter hole Make your motor mounts and bolt them to the Alpine mounts, modify the Alpine trans mount for the M41 tail . I suggest a 2 piece drive shaft as the M41 has a flange fitting up front. You can use an upgraded Alpine radiator but will need to put the smaller Volvo bottom outlet tube, right bottom, to connect the hose to waterpump bypass.
I wonder if an adapter plate could be used w/ your prolect. Never made one myself but I know it is a solution for some swaps. Would avoid cutting up 2 bells to make one if the measurements are cooperative
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
An adapter plate probably would work beautifully. Using that method, the Volvo bellhousing, including the entire clutch release assembly, should be a simple replacement for the Alpine's. The Volvo nose pilot bearing sticks out about 3/8" farther than the Alpine's. My problem is that I have never done anything like that and would not know where (or how) to start the process. When I think about getting everything lined up and held in place, my mind goes blank. Just cannot process than problem. I am using the cut and weld two bells together method because my equipment provides a way I see it can be done accurately, not because it is best or that others should do it. I can see some more astute dude setting at a computer, feeding bellhousing dimensions into a program that would be fed into a laser cutter and cut an adapter. I do know that dude is not Bill Blue.
Bill
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Having thought about an adapter plate a little more, I'd better add that it would be a good idea to keep the hand crank handy!

Meanwhile, I'm making slow progress. Managed to locate the center of the Alpine Alpine bell at the front of the housing. This was a mechanlcal process, projecting a point out from the centering hole that aligns the bell with the transmission. Done mostly with milling machine setup tools. These are very precise items. Maybe not dinensionally, but are in squareness and parallel. Measuring from my located center to the bolt holes is not reassuring. .There is considerable variation, as if the holes were not accurately located at the factory. A particular instance: Holes A,B,C are adjacent to each other. A and C measure measure the same, B is way off. Also, the starter bolt holes are not located the same, not even with each other. I see no way that all this be the result of my center location, so I'm proceeding with the project.

Next up, sawing the bell housings in two. Yesterday I made an arbor to mount a plain, carpenters 7 1/4" carbide toothed saw blade in my mill. Mounting the bells on the mill should be s simple, "plop it down, bolt it in place and start sawing." operation. Just hole ti works out that way. That should be worth a picture or two.

Bill
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Okay kiddies, picture time!
First up, the Alpine bell, showing most of my center relaying system.
IMG_8216.JPG

Next, the Volvo bell housing on the mill.
IMG_8214.JPG

1/2 of Volvo bell housing.

IMG_8215.JPG

Alpine remains.
IMG_8217.JPG

Forced marriage. Looks pretty good, need to clean them up and do a proper stackup, using my centering fixture.
IMG_8218.JPG
By the way, the saw blade worked good, but it is too big for the mill. Had to rotate the housings 3 or 4 times in order complete a cut.
Bill
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Here they (it) is (are) ready for the welding. The guy I had used fifteen years ago decided to retire, but I found a replacement. A father-son fabrication company. They said they would be glad to do the job, but that it would tale a week or two to fit it in the schedule. Its seems to be a special type of job. The guy said you can't just walk up to it and start welding. You have to be in the proper frame of mind. Can't be pissed off, tired in a hurry. You need to take your time, get it warmed up before getting serious with the welding. The "window" in the second photo is the cutout for the clutch lever.IMG_8220.JPG IMG_8221.JPG .
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Received a phone call this morning, saying the bell housing was done. $125, cash or check, No plastic. Picked it up. Got to say the $125 was surprising, expected more like $75, but the welding job blows me away. Welded inside and out, two passes! The thing is not only welded, it is filled. Now to attack the slave cylinder mount. There is a big problem, due to the 5 degree tilt of the Alpine engine, the Alpine slave mount does not align with the Volvo clutch lever. Would of been a near perfect match if not for that.
IMG_8223.JPG IMG_8224.JPG

He said there were issues, everything went good. Told him I was glad to hear that. Will post a pic of the slave cylinder issue later.

Bill
 
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