• Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

Moss/Pickering Alpine

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Tonight I had a phone call from Keith Thomas. Keith was one of the former owners of the Moss/Pickering Alpine… the #89 in this video.

http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/tam_redo_202.mov

It is also the #7 in these photos

http://www.racingalpines.org/Bud Rose/Brahbham color 2.html


http://www.racingalpines.org/Bud Rose/Brahbam color 1.html

Anyway, Pickering bought the car from Rootes after Stirling Moss raced it a couple of times. Eventually, Ray moved to Kansas and then in 65’ sold it to Keith Thomas.

I always thought this car was really special and Keith confirmed it. It was really well developed and had all sorts of great modifications including a one-off intake that managed to balance the Zeniths better than the stock. Interestingly, he explained that he had a special certificate with the intake which he would have to show to the SCCA official confirming that the intake was legal in the production class.

According to Keith, the rules stated that you could remove material from compoenents BUT you couldn’t add material So, to modify the intake like they wanted they cut off the lower water jacket and realigned the mount flanges of the carbs. … if I understand correctly, used the cut off portion to add back on to the intake where they needed it.

The result was the carbs were mid-way between the intake runners. The intake, according to Keith, cost an absolute fortune.

Overall, he said the car was absolutely beautiful. One of the best looking cars he raced…. And he raced quite a few including Shelby GT350’s, Alfa GTA’s, and FA’s.

Simply amazing what was done to this car…. And how successful it was. Keith also confirmed that he sold it to Stephen Blake. I have records of Blake racing the car into the early 70's.

Steve
 

64beam

Donation Time
Hi Steve,

In the third photo showing the two Alpines, the white car seems to be sitting very high at the front. Is it jacked up or was that the way the suspension was setup for that car?

Regards, Robin.
 

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Robin,

I am not sure but here's more photos of that car...

http://www.racingalpines.org/HaginRose images/RoseHaginimages.htm

They might have taken the SCCA GCR to heart and been runnning stock springs! Brabham and Moss took 3rd overall beating some other impressive cars. Story goes that Moss was suppose to drive #7.... he had been out drinking late the night before and it was over 100 degrees at Riverside that morning. Moss takes #7 out for practice laps and comes in with engine problems. One or two people that were there suggest that Moss over reved on purpose.

The bottom line is... Moss explains to Garrad he won't be able to run the Alpine and Garrad responded with somthing to the effect of...the hell you won't. We paid you to race and you will share the other Alpine with Brabham!

According to Bob Hagin the #45 Alpine came back in pieces! Hagin said that they had removed the original Alpine seat and put in an MGA seat or some type of other seat! Now that I look back on what Bob told me and all the other details I bet it was one of the rare Microcell Competition seats they remove from the #7 car. (type used in the Sebring/LeMans cars)



Steve
 

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
This is interesting.... Keith Thomas mentioned that the manifold was welded using a process of "atomic" welding. I didn't know anything about this type of welding but it seems to be an older process and I suspect it was used because you can weld without a filler material (or perhaps the bottom of the manafold log that was cut off was reused as the filler).

Anyway, here's a link describing the process of Atomic welding:

http://www.specialwelds.com/underwater-welding/atomic-hydrogen-welding.htm

Often, when I talk with a driver from the 60's details can be exagerated or perhaps recolections aren't as accurate but in this case I believe that Rootes went through some extream methods of complying with SCCA rules.

I don't know if the manifold would look all that much different than stock other than the carb mount bases were positioned mid point between cylinders.

Perhaps there were some other changes made, too.

As a side note, Doane Spencer use to cut of the log on the bottom of the manifold... remove the wall that was separating that space... then weld the log back on. Supposedly, it provided additional volume for the charge of fuel to mix with air (would the mixture be more balanced between cylinders? I don't recall that mixture balance was a problem between cylinders on the down draft Zeniths)

Steve
 

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Here's new photo of the Sterling Moss Alpine.

I like the license plate on the front.

Steve
 
Last edited:

RootesRooter

Donation Time
Such a GREAT photo. I'm still kicking myself for not bidding on it. Wasn't there another nice photo of factory Rapiers on the back?
 

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Yes, there was the image of the Rapiers but that one has been published in one of the books.

I had never seen this one of the Stirling Moss car.

Lately, I had been corresponding with Bob Hines, who occasionally raced it when Ray Pickering owned it, and he seems to think Ken Miles' shop put it together.

Wish we knew more details on this car and it's creation. There are a couple of stories I have been told:

- the factory sent over 2 mechanics with parts in advance of the race to prepare the car
- Ray Pickering built it up prior to the event
- (now) Ken Miles' shop may have built it up.

Any of these are a possiblity... or it could be the mechanics from Rootes used Miles' shop....
 

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
BTW< Can anyone identify the two other people in the photo?
(not Moss, Brabham, or Garrard but the two somewhat further back)
 

mikephillips

Donation Time
I think the one in the back on the right is Miles. Shape of the nose seems right, and notice the hairline on his right, seems to conform with the photo below.
 

Attachments

  • drivers-KenMiles.jpg
    drivers-KenMiles.jpg
    12.7 KB · Views: 17

puff4

Platinum Level Sponsor
Yeah, that's definitely Miles on the right in the back. But the guy on the left puzzles me. It's not Brabham, though he was there. Here's a related pic with Jack at the wheel:

Brabham%20riverside%2062.jpg


Other related pics:

alpinerace.jpg

Jack Brabham, Stirling Moss and Norman Garrad... guy to Stirling's right is unidentified, however, he may be the same guy as in the back left on your photo. In fact, this may have been taken within minutes of your photo, since the men are standing in the same order/position, and the papers on the car are remarkably similar... even the wind direction is the same, as it is curling up the papers the same way/direction in both photos.

140810254.jpg

A larger version of your photo for clarity.
 

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
I am pretty sure that is Lew Spencer. Very clean white drivers suit with a sunbeam patch on the left side. It would make sense if the other is miles.
 

AndrewM

Donation Time
I would agree with Steve that it is Lew Spencer. If you take a look at the 1962 Sebring Team photo on Steve's website, you will see Lew Spencer stending next to Ken Miles. Seems to be the same suit.

Andrew
 

Rootes 66

Donation Time
http://www.saoc.demon.co.uk/index1.htm
There are a number of photos in the clubs archieve Harrington/Photos. Old photos.
The middle photo of Kevins has the caption :
This photograph from the same day in 1961 shows Sir Stirling Moss OBE and Jack Brabham. Jack is on Stirlings right. On Stirlings left is Norman Garrard and his son Ian Garrard in the sun glasses. Standing far left is Jimmy Ashworth.
Pete
 

65sunbeam

SAOCA Membership Director
Diamond Level Sponsor
On a 11 year old thread with links that go to who knows where now?
All the more reason for members of this forum to post photos in our Gallery. We are still here.
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
On a 11 year old thread with links that go to who knows where now?
All the more reason for members of this forum to post photos in our Gallery. We are still here.
Yup.. Same as people posting ebay links to discuss the cars.
I used to host all my photos om webshots till it shut down...
Now there is a proper gallery on saoca it should all go there.
 

GlennB

Silver Level Sponsor
The SAOC site moved to a new address a long time ago - Gallery (sunbeamalpineowners.club) this is a link to the newer photo gallery - some good shots there but small. I'll ask if we can put up a proper motorsport gallery. We have a meet on Saturday and I'll talk to the webmaster.
 

Warren

Bronze Level Sponsor
On a 11 year old thread with links that go to who knows where now?
All the more reason for members of this forum to post photos in our Gallery. We are still here.


Amen brother. You cannot imagine how many I dealt with on CAT . Just recently we had a member at Woodley park and another meeting. He posted links to Flikr and I contacted him. I told him what they told me pay up or your content goes away. Which I have to go and find a way to build a tutorial on how to look at people's albums and how to set them up as public or private. The new version of this forums software allows that. That is really great if you want to put pictures up that you don't want Google to scoop up and splash through their searches. There's also an option to allow only registered users. It's a great place to hang your pictures.
 
Top