Steering Problem?

[DAK]

Since getting my Alpine two years ago I've addressed a list of issues to make sure the car is safe and reliable. Since adding an overdrive unit I don't mind driving an interstate highway. However, when the car gets to about 65 mph it starts to do what I call the "shimmy-shimmy-shake-shake" which is really a slight back and forth weave without steering wheel movement. Same thing happens sometimes when I'm passed by a big truck.

I've had my mechanic check the steering linkages and bushings and he felt that everything seems tight. I can move the steering wheel a couple of inches before the tires start to move so I'm thinking the problem might be in the steering box.

Has anybody else had this problem? Is it something that Alpines do? Is there something else that might be the problem? My tires seem good and it doesn't feel like an out-of-balance problem.

If the problem is in the steering box, can the problem be addressed by replacing parts? What parts? Or should the whole unit be rebuilt? If so, is there someone in the US or UK who does such work?

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. You guys have been great!

 

[Jay Laifman]

"My tires seem good and it doesn't feel like an out of balance problem"? There is no such "feel" test. I'd strongly suggest that you get those wheels actually checked at a tire shop. I'd also suggest that you look at the connections of the cross over tube. This goes behind the engine and connects the steering box to the other side. Have someone watch those links while someone else moves the steering wheel. I'll bet you have a bunch of play there. And if either of these issues are present, I'd suggest a new mechanic.

 

[Mike O'D]

There should be little if any play in the steering wheel. As Jay suggests, have someone watch the steering components while you turn the wheel slightly back and forth to see where the play is. The cross-over tube is definitely a good place to look - that rubber breaks down.

 

[Shannon Boal]

Negative camber makes my series V prone to that. (The right side leans inboard at the top). It hunts around in the lane, following the groove worn in the road, and moves with the blast from trucks. I don't know the alignment specs for your car, but 1/2 degree positive (leans out at the top, slightly), with 1/8" toe-in is more stable, and nicer to drive.
Are the wheels stock? After-market wheels that are significantly offset to the outside might add to the mix. The steering axis (imaginary line drawn through the pivots of upper and lower ball joints) should intersect the tire road contact patch in it's center. If the wheels are offset outboard, that contact patch will move out away from that steering axis, making for twitchy driving.

 

[Barry]

Negative camber makes my series V prone to that. (The right side leans inboard at the top). It hunts around in the lane, following the groove worn in the road, and moves with the blast from trucks. I don't know the alignment specs for your car, but 1/2 degree positive (leans out at the top, slightly), with 1/8" toe-in is more stable, and nicer to drive.
Are the wheels stock? After-market wheels that are significantly offset to the outside might add to the mix. The steering axis (imaginary line drawn through the pivots of upper and lower ball joints) should intersect the tire road contact patch in it's center. If the wheels are offset outboard, that contact patch will move out away from that steering axis, making for twitchy driving.

Series Alpines don't come anywhere close to having the steering axis intersecting the center of the tire contact patch. Primarily because of a very low steering axis inclination, Series Alpines have more than 2" of positive scrub radius with factory wheels and over 3" of positive scrub radius with 6" wide aftermarket wheels. The extremely positive scrub radius probably did not matter with the high-profile bias-ply tires of 50+ years ago, but it can seriously aggravate steering response with modern lower-profile radials. Negative camber adds to the aggravation as does higher than necessary tire pressure.

 

[RootesRooter]

Alpine steering is not remotely tight by modern standards, so perceived steering wheel play while stopped may not tell you anything.

I'd take it to a dedicated front end shop that can balance the wheels and do an alignment (1/8" toe-in, as suggested) after checking all the usual connection points.

 

[Bill Blue]

Front wheel out of balance shake is felt in the steering wheel. Rear wheel out of balance shake is felt in your butt. It is possible to have both at the same time, or perhaps a situation where one is felt at 35 mph and the other at 60.

Bill

 

[RootesRooter]

Guess we should go back to your "shimmy-shimmy-shake-shake." Is it really a "shake" or just weaving? Alpines, even in good shape, are prone to weaving on grooved payment or "hunting" on freeway lanes that have been rutted by semi-truck traffic.

 

[jumpinjan]

If the whole steering assemble has been rebuilt...."properly", there shouldn't be any adverse steering affects. I never felt any in all my years of Alpine ownership after rebuilding everything in the first place.
If no maintenance/repairs has been done in over 50 years....then thats a problem. I see this more and more as new owners get into their used, high mileage Alpines.
Jan

 

[Shannon Boal]

Can you find a good alignment shop? I like word of mouth. Do auto shops in your area send their alignment work out? Ask around, who do they send their work to? If you find somebody who is picky, eccentric and maybe charges more than the competition, that might not be a deal-breaker. Some stores have payments to make on a rented/leased alignment machine, and run "alignment specials". Those have never worked out for me.....

 

[jumpinjan]

I would find a local shop that does a lot of the vintage cars and not the big tire, chain stores or parts stores. Stay away from them, in my opinion.

Has anyone done it themselves? For about $300 one can buy the caster/camber/toe-in sensors.
Jan

 

[Shannon Boal]

Have done hundreds. I bought a caster/camber gauge from J.C. Whitney. (I used to use a protractor head spirit level). Used two yardsticks, or a tape measure for toe. Sighted down the front tire's sidewalls to center the steering wheel. On a level floor, I set concrete blocks topped with wood, as four pedestals. Set the car on this platform, sprinkle kitty litter granules under tires so they will turn and float. It is very accurate, just gotta use your head.

Has anyone done it themselves? For about $300 one can buy the caster/camber/toe-in sensors.
Jan[/QUOTE]

 

[Shannon Boal]

Here is a bargain unit: https://www.amazon.com/YXGOOD-Unive...rds=caster+camber+gauge&qid=1634760795&sr=8-6

 

[Bill Blue]

Here is a bargain unit: https://www.amazon.com/YXGOOD-Unive...rds=caster+camber+gauge&qid=1634760795&sr=8-6

How does this measure castor?
Bill

 

[RootesRooter]

A cheap diagnostic would be to swap front and rear wheels. If its a balance problem, it's not likely that all the wheels are equally out of balance, so you should notice a change.

 

[Shannon Boal]

How does this measure castor? It uses the change in camber which occurs through a specific swing of the steering. One swings the steering say, twenty degrees left, and zeroing a long spirit level at that position, then proceed to swing it to the opposite steering position twenty degrees, at which point the long spirit level's bubble will indicate a caster value. This type of gauge was perfect when we could remove the hub bearing dust cap, snug the bearing tighter than normal, and attach the magnetic base to the machined face of the hub.

 

[Shannon Boal]

A better unit, I think, and the pictures help with the above explanation. https://www.amazon.com/Joes-Racing-...ds=caster+camber+gauge&qid=1634760795&sr=8-10

 

[Mike O'D]

For doing alignments, the manual calls for spacers to be placed in the front suspension components and the rear axle tubes and then a considerable amount of weight placed somewhere in the front of the car to make sure it is sitting on the spacers. Anyone ever been to an alignment shop that did that? I don't know how much that changes things, but there must be a reason the manual specifies to do it that way.

 

[junkman]

It could also be tires out of round. Inexpensive tires can sometimes have quality issues resulting in an out of round condition. Try jacking the wheel off the ground less than 1/4 inch, then spin it by hand while watching your clearance with the ground. Quick, cheap, easy check.

 

[Barry]

For doing alignments, the manual calls for spacers to be placed in the front suspension components and the rear axle tubes and then a considerable amount of weight placed somewhere in the front of the car to make sure it is sitting on the spacers. Anyone ever been to an alignment shop that did that? I don't know how much that changes things, but there must be a reason the manual specifies to do it that way.

Mike,

The "load to design ride height" procedure before checking / adjusting the front suspension is what happens when design engineers get involved in the service world. I won't argue that the procedure is wrong, but I doubt that many Series Alpines actually operate at the front and rear design ride heights. Setting camber, caster and toe-in at design ride heights and then operating the vehicle at different ride heights strikes me as a sure way of achieving less than desirable suspension geometry.

The odds of a typical alignment shop having gap gauges and a front weight platform / weights for a Series Alpine are somewhere between slim and none.

IMO, it makes more sense to load the vehicle to represent how it is typically driven; driver's weight in the drivers seat, half the passenger's weight in the passenger seat, half the typical luggage weight in the jump seat / boot plus a half tank of gas and then check / align the vehicle at the actual real world ride heights.

JMO, YMMV.