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V6 running too hot

sd_pace

Donation Time
well I have it running and it drives with alot of spunk... but it seems to run too hot... i put a 160 thermo in it and made a shroud that works well.. the temp at idle hangs around 190, but as I drive it climbs to 210 or more... driving doesn't seem to bring it down much at all... I have an ac condenser in front of the radiator. there is an average 2 inch gap between them and it seems to suck air well... could it be the water pump?:eek:
 

Paul A

Alpine Registry Curator
Platinum Level Sponsor
Are you checking your temps with an accurate device - an infrared thermometer, for example? I am using original Sunbeam gauges in one of my V6 cars and it appears to run about 210 - a check with two different infrared themometers show that it is actually at 190. Pete
 

sd_pace

Donation Time
i have been checking with one at different locations and it seems to confirm the issue... I am also using the Evans racing coolant, there is not very much pressure with it I can remove the cap and see the fluid moving across the radiator. before adding the the cowl, it pegged the guage... with the cowl its hovering above 210 or more
 

phyrman

SAOCA Secretary
Diamond Level Sponsor
Check your timing
Running retarded will cause it to run hot

Also remember, the more horsepower = more fuel and hotter temps

Also did you check the temp at different location on the radiator?

Bruce
 

todd reid

Gold Level Sponsor
V6 running Hot

What are you using for a radiator? I had my Alpine Rad recored with an additional row of tubes.

Have you blocked the horn holes, etc. There have been reams written on Tiger cooling - a lot of it can be applied to the Alpine.

TR
 

kmathis

Donation Time
also, what radiator cap are you running, I am running a 13 PSI cap, and my temp gauge shows a little high as well, however I never lose any coolant...so that's where it likes to run.
 

Ken Ellis

Donation Time
Just FYI, if you're including the factory heating setup in your cooling circuit, there is a lower pressure rating for that heat exchanger. It may work fine, it may bulge (hampering removal) or it may leak. Same deal applies to higher cooling system pressure on standard Alpines, too...

If you're not including the heater, because hey, it's summer and the top's down, then no worries! :)
 

sd_pace

Donation Time
So Bruce I have been experimenting with the timing and it has a small effect...

Todd it is the three core alpine radiator clean and without restriction, the flow looks good at running temp. block off plates are on the table and will try them.

Kelly the cap is a new 7lbs and there is a small amount of working pressure in the system.

Ken I do have the stock heater core in there (un-deformed), heat does circulate, but dont need it though, except as an emergency fluid reserve

I am thinking there is not enough flow for sufficient heat transfer and my try pulling the thermo out completely.... or my pump may have a too small an impeller...not cool at all

I feel the cam is too hot (jose grind) for my needs... and may turn it down some...
 
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Ken Ellis

Donation Time
Regarding impellers, some folks (in the general auto population, not just Alpine V6) have found impellers eroded significantly, impairing pumping performance. If you've seen the impeller in the last year or two, you're probably fine.

It could possibly need 'burped' depending on system architecture (BMW's sometimes need this) or there are electric booster pumps out there too. They're pricey, though.
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
The thermal conductivity of the the evans coolant is is not as good as glycol + 50% H2O (and far worse that straight up water). As such most people running it go to a much higher temp thermostat to generate temp differentials that the lower efficiency coolant can maintain.

I had a friend set his to run at about 275 degrees because it needed the higher temp diff to even cool the engine at idle.

With waterless coolant you wont have to worry about overheating but you do still need to build the engine with regards to the added thermal expansion due to the higher coolant temps. Things like piston and ring clearances need to be looser...
 

65beam

Donation Time
hot

The thermal conductivity of the the evans coolant is is not as good as glycol + 50% H2O (and far worse that straight up water). As such most people running it go to a much higher temp thermostat to generate temp differentials that the lower efficiency coolant can maintain.

I had a friend set his to run at about 275 degrees because it needed the higher temp diff to even cool the engine at idle.

With waterless coolant you wont have to worry about overheating but you do still need to build the engine with regards to the added thermal expansion due to the higher coolant temps. Things like piston and ring clearances need to be looser...

Evans coolant is a glycol based product as are most automotive coolants. They do say that you need to use their Prep Fluid to flush the engine if you're converting from a conventional ethylene glycol product. This prep fluid does not clean any corrosion or rust from the engine. It just removes the water. Evans does not mix with water but if exposed to the air it will absorb moisture from the air. That renders it useless. It also does not contain most of the additives found in conventional coolant since the length of time it will be in the engine will be much less. That means very little protection for the block and heads. It does not mix with any supplemental coolant additives. Don't even think about putting it in a diesel. A 15 lb cap will raise the boil point of the Evans to 375 F versus 265 F of a 50/50 blend of conventional coolant. That means it's not a product for every day use due to the temps required to make waterless coolant work.
 
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sd_pace

Donation Time
The engine has only had the Evans coolant in it and I made sure the heater core was clean and dry on install so no contamination... I was unaware of the conduction qualities, I got the stuff for free and thought I would use it. Should I go back to good ol' Prestone then? The motor is new through out, machined and cleaned, only has 50 miles on it and has not over heated yet but was very hot a few times. so far this stuff is not cooling it like I want...

and I want to use my air conditioner too!
 

65beam

Donation Time
hot

Rootesracer said it. This is a coolant that should be used in a high performance engine built to run at higher temps and is going to be torn down on a regular basis. If it does contain additives to protect against foaming, rust and corrosion the amount would be minimal. I believe some organizations don't want you to use a regular coolant while racing. Evans isn't the only brand out there and I have not seen their recommendation for length of service. For normal every day use I would buy a green 50/50 blend and use it. The water in the blend is deionized water and not conventional tap water so all the guess work of mixing your own is gone.
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Steve, As you know, my Alpine V6 has the A/C unit also.

It is from Vintage Air and has both the A/C & the heater option.

With the heater option I removed the stock heater core and the factory fan.

The reason why is simple, reports of the core bulging and bursting under pressure above 7 lbs caused me to take that bit of caution in advance.

I run a Stant radiator cap Number 231 with 16 lbs.

My stock radiator was re-cored to copper with three tubes.

A factory/stock Alpine radiator has nine (9) fins per inch vs My new re-cored one has seventeen (17) fins per inch for better heat dissipation (IMHO).

I too run a radiator shroud I fabricated specifically for my V6 modification hoping to get away from any potential heating problems. So far so good.

My A/C condenser is mounted right in front of the radiator with very little spacing.

All or I should say most holes are plugged to help direct air flow to the radiator.

The radiator modification I recommend using is with the "top" left hose connection angled about 7 degrees toward the water neck on the intake manifold and the bottom right having the 90 degree elbow downunder the tank pointing directly across toward the left side to the modified thermostat housing. By utilizing the Gates hose 22080 for connecting the 90 degree elbow to the modified thermostat, the hose actually serves as a blockage between the crossmember and the bottom of the radiator.

I have been driving in some very hot conditions here in Sunny SC and during noon traffic at times with out heating problems so far ( And I repeat so far).

During the UNITED XXXVI there was no heating problems encountered during my driving times. Only problem was I had to push it off the first morning ( w/Joel Griffin & my Son's help) due to a bad battery.

Steve, maybe it is that nice EPS you have installed in that beautiful Red Alpine;)

DanR
 
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todd reid

Gold Level Sponsor
V6 Running hot

I would not recommend pulling the thermostat completely - you can end up circulating the coolant too fast - it needs some dwell time in the radiator to transfer the heat. I've been where you are, and pulling the 'stat did not help.

TR
 

sd_pace

Donation Time
well to tell the truth, I have suspected the fluid could be my issue...but didn't want to believe it, the fact that it got hotter as I drove faster.... I would rather not remove the thermostat for all the obvious reasons ...
Dan as you know the setup is very similer to yours with the exception of the heater core and the condenser being a few inches forward. I real feel there is enough flow to cool it. there is a good draw from the fan, It is close to the radiator (inside 3/8") the cowl is within 1/2" of the blades... (its a tight fit all the way around)
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Steve,

You mention that you are running the Alpine three core radiator. Did you replace the core for a heavy duty three row core? If you didn't, you will never get the engine to run cool, as the stock Alpine radiator isn't big enough to handle the heat the little V6 puts out.


So Bruce I have been experimenting with the timing and it has a small effect...

Todd it is the three core alpine radiator clean and without restriction, the flow looks good at running temp. block off plates are on the table and will try them.

Kelly the cap is a new 7lbs and there is a small amount of working pressure in the system.

Ken I do have the stock heater core in there (un-deformed), heat does circulate, but dont need it though, except as an emergency fluid reserve

I am thinking there is not enough flow for sufficient heat transfer and my try pulling the thermo out completely.... or my pump may have a too small an impeller...not cool at all

I feel the cam is too hot (jose grind) for my needs... and may turn it down some...
 

sd_pace

Donation Time
Jose , I have a large three core in there that came with the car when I acquired it, I believe the radiator was upgraded ... How to tell?
 

todd reid

Gold Level Sponsor
V running too hot

Steve,
I have no experience with this Evans coolant. Based on what others have written, it sounds like as soon as you open your system up the stuff is cooked and should be renewed. Lets try the simple stuff first!

1. Test your system (if you haven't already)- take your radiator cap off and start the car. As it gets up to temperature the thermostat should open. Can you see coolant moving? Does your independent temp gauge reflect the movement starting at a reasonable temp (based on the thermostat rating)?

2. Drain the Evans. Replace with traditional 50/50 mix. If thermostat is suspect after step 1 above, replace that too.

3. Block horn holes - you can probably do this in less than an hour with tools you already have.

Take a test drive and see where you are.

PS: I highly recommend going to a closed system (with an overflow bottle). This will require a different (bi-directional) radiator cap. If you don't do this your radiator will either:
A: Overflow every time it get filled due to thermal expansion. and/or
B. Spend most of its life 7/8th full.
 
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phyrman

SAOCA Secretary
Diamond Level Sponsor
One thing I failed to mention....
Straight water with water wetter does work the best at cooling
The water wetter has a pump lube and rust inhibitor and also breaks down those weak VanDerWall forces (water tension)
Antifreeze keep the water from freezing and has a slight raise of boiling point which is a trade off for more efficient cooling This was gleaned from my father whose specialty is heat transfer engineering
My first V6 would run between 190-200 here in Los Angeles when I went to the water/water wetter combo

Bruce
 
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