What's the most power you've been able to achieve?

[DaisyPusher]

I have a stock 2.8l with pretty much everything else modified. The dyno readout says I'm getting around 100hp and 140ft/lb. and I have an extra set of heads that I'm considering getting ported and polished. Has anyone used an aggressive cam or is it better to stick with a mild cam? I'm not trying to twist the frame or anything; I'd just like to help the engine realize it's full potential. Any input would be appreciated.

Cheers, Matt

 

[DanR]

Matt, As starters I'd suggest you read Sven Pruitt's Book on the 60 degree 2.8 & 4.0 V6 Cologne Engine.....


DanR

 

[crs]

Dan, good advice, whether a mechanic or the owner does the work.

Daisy,
It sounds as if it is decision time on whether you want a fun, reliable driver or a loud, roaring charger.
My son took our SIV 2.8 V6 the latter route and I was barely able to keep him from having an all out, full race engine. The only thing short of a full race rebuild was that we stopped with a 3/4 race cam - thank goodness, because it lopes as is. There is way more power than needed for passing, cruising above the speed limit, and without special fairing, the Alpine front end will go airborne above 110 mph(ask V6 Jose about that).
I have had to stop driving the car in parades because of the constant start, stop, speed up, stop, cycle - it wears me out and causes too much slipping of the clutch.
The car originally my belonged to my wife, but she will no longer drive it- too much work and no longer fun - it does not want to Cadillac around town and is only happy on a country road highway.

 

[todd reid]

What's the most power you've been able to acheive

How much do you want to spend?

Disclaimer - my V6 is basically stock - removed the pollution crap and plugged the EGR ports. But I have had it on the road for 20 years and read & watched what other people are doing.

Getting up around 150 HP is fairly straight forward and relatively well documented here: Jose cam grind, 2.9 valves, headers, head work, etc. Above that gets more challenging & expensive (2.9 crank, turbo, ????)

TR

 

[Series6]

Matt

Get in touch with Kelly and Rich, both in your area. I drove Rich's V6 in Cambria at the Invasion. Pretty sure Kelly's is in the same performance ballpark.

 

[DaisyPusher]

This is all great advice. I wish Pruitt's book wasn't so expensive but it seems necessary. Rich actually came to my house since we live fairly close and spoke highly of Kelly's as well. I'll have to get in touch with him again. And since she's not my daily driver yet (waiting for my Z/28 to die but she won't let go,) I figure it would be a good time to do my homework on some good do's and don'ts. 150hp does seem attainable. She's plenty fast now but always in the pursuit of more...

 

[DanR]

Another source for some fine add on's... http://www.burtonpower.com/

That and Sven Pruitt's Book will keep you busy and most of all knowledgeable of the Do's&Don'ts

 

[DaisyPusher]

I'll definitely look into that. Another question: I also got a set of new valves, springs, pushrods, and other small engine parts that came with the car. Is there any way to tell if the valves are 2.8l or 2.9l? I haven't had a chance to check them out and I doubt I could tell just by looking at them but it would definitely help out the ol' wallet.

 

[DanR]

2.9 Valve Spec.....

Valve Specifications

Seat Angle Degree 45
Face Angle Degree 44
Spring Test Pressure 143lbs @ 1.22in
Spring Installed Height 1.58-1.61in
Stem to Guide Clearance Intake 0.0008-0.0025in
Stem to Guide Clearance Exhaust 0.0018-0.0035in
Stem Diameter Intake 0.3159-0.3167in
Stem Diameter Exhaust 0.3149-0.3156in

Better yet here is a link for you to gleam a bit of info: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/2_9_Page.html

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Daisy,

I highly recommend not getting Sven Pruitt's book, because the book was written for an all out race engine. Very little of what's written in it should be used on a street engine. The engine Sven describes is for a race engine that is built to get maximum HP out of it and those engines are meant to be rebuilt about every other race. They are grenade engines, which I'm sure you don't want for your investment. Save your money and invest it on an Offy manifold and a new 390 cfm Holley carburetor. With a few simple old time tricks, you can get 200 + reliable HP.

The Sven pruit book will lead you down the wrong path the where you want to go, unless you are wanting to exclusively race your 2.8 V6. There are other opinions out there, but I have been building these engines since 1975, and know them pretty well.

This is all great advice. I wish Pruitt's book wasn't so expensive but it seems necessary. Rich actually came to my house since we live fairly close and spoke highly of Kelly's as well. I'll have to get in touch with him again. And since she's not my daily driver yet (waiting for my Z/28 to die but she won't let go,) I figure it would be a good time to do my homework on some good do's and don'ts. 150hp does seem attainable. She's plenty fast now but always in the pursuit of more...

 

[DanR]

Jose I understand Sven suggested you write your own book way back when

Beings he is not available, I stand by what He wrote. There is enough in his book to give more than adequate advice on building an engine from a bit better than stock to a full race engine.

Since I started on my V6 projects back in 2012, I have had to gleam what info I could from about any source I could find.

If you had taken Sven suggestion and written your book perhaps we would all have been better at this point.

I have stated before that I appreciate your knowledge and expertise. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Bill Blue]

"With a few simple old time tricks, you can get 200 + reliable HP."


No you can't.

Jose, you've been telling people that for years. Guys announce a 200 hp build, none have been completed and documented here. It seems 150 hp (which is a lot of fun) is common, with 175 the practical limit.

I am quite willing to retract this statement with apologies when evidence to the contrary is posted.

Bill

 

[Alpine66]

I have full ramming speed....
Chevy's published figures puts it at 125 hp.
It scoots well

 

[DaisyPusher]

Jose,
I bought Robbie's car from the gentleman he sold it to so most of the heavy lifting is already done (Offy, Holley 390, etc.) Like I said, I also got an extra set of heads, valves springs, etc., with the car and a cam in a Delta box that literally has your name on it. I haven't found any documentation that says whether or not the valves and cam are stock or not. My plan was to port and polish the heads, install a larger cam, and larger valves and see what kind of gain that will get me. I've read that these engines are somewhat choked and stifled due to the restrictions of the 70's so I'd like to open it up at least a little. I have absolutely no interest in racing her. She's plenty quick as she sits. I'm mostly looking for continued reliability, a little more power and a throatier sound. The readout I got from Robbie puts her at about 100hp and 140ft/lbs. I would be more than happy with 125-150hp and whatever torque is added. I upgrade the DeLoreans at my work somewhat regularly so I know it can be done. Still not sure if I'll do it myself...

Cheers, Matt

 

[V6 JOSE]

Bill,

Your jealousy has blinded you to real world facts. My first V6 Alpine weighed 2,400 lbs., with a set of heads that had stock 2.8 valves, though ported and polished, and a rear end without a posi, so I had to take it easy out of the hole, (which kills e.t.s) ran the quarter in 14.52 at 100 mph flat. If I'd had a posi in it at the time, it would have gone about 1/2 second quicker. When plugged into any of the programs that figure out horse power for these given parameters, will give you 200 hp., and that is with a not ideal set up for best traction, so care had to be taken to not blow off the tires. You were one of the guys that got Robbie to sell his Alpine because of your lies.

Jim Ellis got much more than 200 hp from his naturally aspirated 2.8 V6 which made one of the guys state, after driving it, that he hadn't been in a faster Sunbeam, which he later clarified that saying, that he had ridden in a Tiger that had a highly modified 347 small block in it.

You have been one of the guys that has and is, providing false information about the 2.8 V6 conversion for years. You have done much damage with this false info, and several guys, believing you, have gone the wrong way and have ended up spending a lot of money and gotten less than what they expected.

I will probably get excommunicated from the club for this note, but you need calling out for your falsehoods.

"With a few simple old time tricks, you can get 200 + reliable HP."


No you can't.

Jose, you've been telling people that for years. Guys announce a 200 hp build, none have been completed and documented here. It seems 150 hp (which is a lot of fun) is common, with 175 the practical limit.

I am quite willing to retract this statement with apologies when evidence to the contrary is posted.

Bill

 

[crs]

Bravo Jose!

 

[V6 JOSE]

Dan, You make me laugh. You write me to ask info, because you don't know much about the little 2.8 V6, (what you do know is what you have read on this forum) then you pretend to know what is good for this engine. You just got through writing me to ask about what could be Steve's problem, because you didn't know much about the 2.6 V6 and wanted to know the straight skinny about it.

You state that Sven Pruitt had suggested I write my own book. That is a bald faced lie. Sven never told me that. Sven would have been the first one to admit that what he wrote was for full on race engines. I don't find fault with his book for race engines, but for what most guys want for their purposes, is not what is described in his book.

I just got through giving you some info because you wrote me asking for it, but I will not give you any more, because you don't appreciate it. You want to pass yourself off as being so knowledgeable about these engines, but all you know is from what I have posted on this forum My book is written on this forum, as I have, for years, answered everything needed to know, in order to make a powerful yet reliable V6 Alpine.

Jose I understand Sven suggested you write your own book way back when

Beings he is not available, I stand by what He wrote. There is enough in his book to give more than adequate advice on building an engine from a bit better than stock to a full race engine.

Since I started on my V6 projects back in 2012, I have had to gleam what info I could from about any source I could find.

If you had taken Sven suggestion and written your book perhaps we would all have been better at this point.

I have stated before that I appreciate your knowledge and expertise. Thanks for sharing!

 

[V6 JOSE]

Thank you John. I appreciate your Acknowledgement.

Bravo Jose!

 

[John W]

Once a man twice a child, although some very educated and wealthy men live their entire lives as grappling children. Men, like Dan, and Bill, are inclusive. And innovative. And challenging to others, but always inclusive. We all have a second childhood coming.

 

[Series6]

Everyone calm down.