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2.8 progress

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
A fellow V6'er that is a JOhn Deere Tractor Dealer will be able to answer your questions on the number of flywheels.

DanR
 

SIVAllan

Gold Level Sponsor
have decided to use a Ser V radiator in my Ser I. I hope it fits. Time will tell!

The Series V radiator doesn't align with the Series 1 chassis bolt holes.

In my experience, the easiest way to install a 2.8 with transmission attached
is to lower the front of the car to the maximum (leave the wheels on the pavement) and raise the rear of the car to the maximum - the higher the better.

Attach the cherry picker chain to the center of the engine - not the nose. A balance bar is helpful.

If the back end of the car is high enough, the engine goes straight in.

Lower it, then reposition the car to be level all around on stands.

Lift the engine forward far enough for the transmission to clear the X member, then back it into the X member.

Install the transmission brace and lower the engine onto the mounts.
 
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V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi John,

I do not recommend installing the engine and transmission together. It is much easier to install the transmission first, from under the car, using the transmission crossmember on the back, and the front of the unit supported with a jack under the bellhousing. Now, the engine will go in without having to stand it on it's tail. once you slip the engine into the engine compartment, you can slip it back to mate it to the waiting bellhousing and transmission.

I have done this procedure both ways, and know it is way easier installing them separately, despite what some experts say. If you install them seperately, you also don't run the risk of bending the front valence because of the front pulley hitting it.

I forgot to mention, that to do it either way, you'll need to have the car raised at least 12" from the ground.


Well after two days of learning curve, I got the engine in the Ser I for the first time to start the fitting process. But I have a few questions?

1 How many John Deer flywheels does it take to make the 2.8 engine and trans go vertical?
2 I think that it must be necessary to go beyond 90 degrees vertical to get the engine with trans to go in from the top.
3 Is three lifting devices enough to make the car accept the engine?
4 Even through the car is on a stand that can be rotated why isn't that enough freedom of movement to stab an engine and trans.
5 Are you sure that there is enough room for the U-joint?

I have decided to use a Ser V radiator in my Ser I. I hope it fits. Time will tell!

Just a few questions for those who have already worked it all out. Tomorrow I may have a few more.



John in Colorado
 

sd_pace

Donation Time
yes it is much easier to install them separate. It is many John Deere flywheels high and the tunnel is short and restrictive for movement... as long as the clutch is aligned it slides together like butter... took me 6 in and outs to get it to set the way I wanted.
 

Fordtootsie

Donation Time
OK Let me see if I can answer these questions.

I forgot to mention that the car has been stripped of everything, except some small patches of paint and is on a rotisserie that was used first on a 56 T-bird. So the bottom of the car is about 4 feet off the ground and level. (Jose that is slightly more that 12 inches but you use what you have)

The John Deere flywheel has been supplemented with a Model A flywheel - MikeH the new unit of weight is a Ford J D and comes in different weights depending on the number used. Generally one each works well - that's the best answer I can do for now.

I put the engine in as described the other day and have now completed all alignment and have the motor mounts welded in place. I used steel 2 inch by 4 inch plate vs the washers that came in the kit for the mounts. I liked the way they fit better - someone in the club gave me the idea but I don't remember what thread it was. Engine and trans aligned very nice with the tunnel and the trans yoke is right in the middle. I wanted to only stab the engine one time - well twice because I will have to take it out before painting. After painting I guess it will be wheels again so I will most likely use a different installation method

I am using a Ser V radiator that was recored with high eff core. I have not changed the rad opening from the SerI cross flow opening so not sure how this will work. I have about 1.5 vert tubes that are covered on both sides. Will see?

I still have a lot of patch panels to make and install as this car had a LOT of rust out- but its another Alpine that will have been saved from the scrap yard.

John in Colorado
 

MikeH

Diamond Level Sponsor
OK Let me see if I can answer these questions.
The John Deere flywheel has been supplemented with a Model A flywheel - MikeH the new unit of weight is a Ford J D and comes in different weights depending on the number used. Generally one each works well - that's the best answer I can do for now.

John in Colorado

I still don't get it. Are you just using flywheels to add weight to the engine/trans assembly to tilt it when on the hoist?
 

Fordtootsie

Donation Time
MikeH

Yes They are just weights to tilt the tail cone vertical as the engine goes in. I use a comealong to pull the engine/trans into a vertical postion so that the shifter will clear the firewall. Once the shifter clears the firewall the weight is no longer needed and the assemble can go back horz.

The engine hoist is set so that the engine/trans has a down angle vs horz

What makes my installation different is that the car is on a rotisserie and the bottom of the car is about 4 feet off the ground. The rotisserie frame is high so I have to work the engine/trans over the top of the frame.

John in Colorado
 

Fordtootsie

Donation Time
V6 clearance

clearance question

I have les than a eight of an inch clearance between the exhaust pipe and the ball joint on the right side of my ser 1 sunbeam with the mustang II installed. I know that everyone has had clearance questions But as the ball joint has a rubber boot ...How much clearance should there be? I have three eights of an inch clearance between the rad (a ser 5 rad in a ser 1 car) and the fan.

John in Colorado (Fordtootsie)
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Can you provide some PIC's of the engine mounts..... I believe you made a comment some time ago about making some plates..?

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Fordtootsie

Donation Time
DanR

My Ser I has had a rough life. It has had several engines including a Datsun b210 when I got the car. This engine was held in place by two bolts through the front member at different angles. Because of this I have holes on both sides that have been cut in the front member ,it appears that whoever did this work used a small cutting torch to remove previous motor mounts and left holes.

With my installation of the V6 I want to close up these holes. I am using 3/16 inch plate material to replace the washers that came with the V6 kit. Each plate is 2in by 4in. The engine mounting hole is located in the middle of the plate 1 and 3/4 inch from the back. The plate starts at the rear of the cross member and goes forward. I will still have to fill in one hole on the right side that the plate won't cover.

Another odd item is that to level the engine I need to use two 3/16 plates on the right side with just one plate on the left ?

The may not be the correct place to ask but I have a ball joint clearance question if you are up to it.

John in Colorado (fordtootsie)
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
John, for starters give me a call tomorrow eight six four five five 4 zero 8 one four.

The height of the engine in front will be very critical.

Take a look at my engine mounts. pictured in the Darkside Gallery. If you don't get a good pic I'll e-mail some better ones.

________
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi John,

Since the steering arm doesn't sit near the header all the time, and just swings past it when you turn, you can go as little as .060" and it will be sufficient.


QUOTE=Fordtootsie;175791]clearance question

I have les than a eight of an inch clearance between the exhaust pipe and the ball joint on the right side of my ser 1 sunbeam with the mustang II installed. I know that everyone has had clearance questions But as the ball joint has a rubber boot ...How much clearance should there be? I have three eights of an inch clearance between the rad (a ser 5 rad in a ser 1 car) and the fan.

John in Colorado (Fordtootsie)[/QUOTE]
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
John, If you shimmed the engine with another 3/16 piece of stock will that add clearance or take a way?
 

Ken Ellis

Donation Time
Although it flies in the face of craftsmanship and ultimate exhaust flow characteristics, a ball-pein hammer making a 1/8" deep dimple could double your local clearance. (Or use a C-clamp with the swivel clamp foot removed, and dimple with the remaining round screw end.) Wrapping the pipe or installing a moderate heat shield could address the heat problem. If you could source a pure silicone boot you should be good to 500 +/- degrees.
 

Fordtootsie

Donation Time
I think that I have maximized the available space necessary to clear the fan and the space to clear the ball joint.

I have milled the harmonic balancer bolt- the one in the middle- so that it is in the same plane as the four bolts that hold on the drive pulley. I still had to shim the fan out toward the rad to make it clear.

I am using a Ser V rad in this Ser I so this installation may be somewhat different than the normal Ser 4 and 5 V6 conversations.

I have removed the lip that was around the Ser I rad and cut out the bulkhead to fit the Ser 5 rad. My ser 5 rad top tank and bottom tank has a boss that sticks out past the rad core.
I measured the distance between this boss and each fan blade

Blade1 - 0.549inches
Blade 2 - 0.556
Blade 3 - 0.562
Blade 4 - 0.491
Blade 5 - 0.585
Blade 6 - 0.542
Blade 7 - 0.572

My car steering wheel turns 3 turns plus 80 degrees from lock to lock--ie 1168 degrees. Wheel center is 1 and 1/2 turns plus 40 degrees or 580 degrees.

At the center position my right ball joint outside edge sits just to the right of the outside edge of the exhaust pipe and the clearance is 0.175 for the metal portion of the ball joint and 0.135 for the rubber boot. If the wheel is turned 30 degrees to the right the ball joint is directly behind the exhaust pipe. The metal portion clearance is 0.111 inches and the boot is 0.076 inches.

So during normal straight driving the ball joint is for all practical purposes right behind the exhaust pipe.

I have made a heat shield out of 0.01 stainless such that I have 0.020 between the shield and the exhaust pipe and 0.046 between the shield and the rubber boot - total of 0.076 ( 0.020 clearance+0.01 for shield + 0.046 clearance).

I would like to know if another V6 conversation owner has checked the condition of their rubber boot for a conversation that does not have a heat shield and what the condition was.....Just would like to know.

John in Colorado
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
JOhn, I'll check mine tomorrow for you.

Perhaps you can get some of the old timers to chime in....

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