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Some like it hot!..So does my Alpine Mark V

Mjbeanie

Bronze Level Sponsor
Well, still troubleshooting cooling system woes on my Alpine.
Have a new thermostat, proper cap, a sporty 6 blade fan, and a brand new shiny Aluminum radiator.

I live in south Florida, never dips below 70 outside temp.

The car runs about 40 degrees C cooler now at cruising speed!!
Needle stays at 70-75C, well below midpoint on gauge. Thought I was home free of this problem....

However, going thru a car loop or stopped traffic, it all goes south.
Temp climbs up to 120 C quickly and higher. good grief.

Two questions, water pump replacement is likely the next stop.
Where to by Victoria British or Classic Sunbeam?? Any preference out there?
(SS has them on backorder ETA unknown.)

Second question: Where's my coolant expansion tank, Don't all cars have them?. I do not have one installed. (previous owner removed the heater core too!)

Thanks for the advice.
Happy Holidays!
Mike
 

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alpine_64

Donation Time
Have you verified the temp on gauge with infrared thermometer on the temp sender?

Expansion tank was actually a header tank on si-ii .

Is the car spitting coolant can you hear it boil the younshiy down?

Verify your gauge is correct and not just misread or wrong temp sender match.

Do you have an electric fan? If so is it sucking/ blowing the correct direction? Your issue is at idle not on the run.

Did you clean your block out? When did you last have the head off? Maybe blocked coolant passages?
 

volvoguys

Diamond Level Sponsor
Since the heater core was removed were the core's water passages blocked off or by-passed? This could be your problem.
 

Jim E

Donation Time
Wow! what a great looking radiator! Does the car use coolant at all? not counting boil over. With that radiator and an elect fan you should be able to cool any engine you can shoe horn in the thing. you have any drive ablity issues. Any history on the engine, have you been in it.
 

tom o

Donation Time
the original sv radiator uses the top tank of the radiator for expansion. Your new radiator has a small top tank. I believe you need an expansion tank.
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
the original sv radiator uses the top tank of the radiator for expansion. Your new radiator has a small top tank. I believe you need an expansion tank.

Modern radiators (like the one that is installed) will push out any surplus coolant past the rad cap and will suck coolant back in after it cools.
Having a small expansion area at the top of the radiator will reduce the amount of liquid volume that exits and enters the radiator due to temp cycling.

What you are probably missing on your setup is a recovery bottle.
Without it, you will run on the low end of coolant level and eventually run low enough to run hot if not overheat.

You should also make sure you are using a modern sealed radiator cap with a pressure relief that wont pop your heater core. I would not go above 9psi with a stock on unmodified heater core.
Old radiator caps for non recovery systems are often not sealed (to the radiator filler) and will let the coolant out easy enough but will often leak enough not to generate sufficient suction to get the coolant back in during the cooling cycle.
 

Jimjordan2

Donation Time
I seldom post on anything technical, cause I'm such a DuMass about things.But.......
There has to be something more going on here, I'm running a stock radiator and a stock 4 blade fan on my 67 V and not having a problem. We need to get some answers back about the questions asked. Coolant overflow, actual temp with an infrared. etc.
I know my gauge isn't correct. I also worry about the temp rising into the 105 C+ on a hot day here in So. Cal, but then I shoot it with infrared and it shows I'm only at about 175/190 F. Now, shooting up to 120 C, now that's a concern I'm thinking, but what's the real temp?
Mike the biggest concern is how hot it really is, and not how hot the gauge reads. Just my Mr. DuMass opinion.
Possibly it is the water pump, but I don't know.
 

Ken Ellis

Donation Time
Here's a thread to reference, starting in sunny Utah.

http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/showthread.php?p=108824&highlight=instrument+regulator

Also, do advanced searches for instrument regulator. They often cover techniques for temp analysis, augmenting cooling (electric fans, etc.) and the like.

The temp gauge on an SV is just a voltmeter, fed with 10-ish volts, (maybe 10.5 or .8 -- Tom H knows for sure) and calibrated accordingly. (The gas gauge is the same thing, calibrated in gallons, or liters, instead of degrees.) If the regulator mistakenly putting out more than ten-ish volts, then the temp will read high but everything will actually be fine.

(The other interesting artifact of too-high instrument regulator output is that you think you have more gas than you actually do. This is likewise problematic.)

Of course, one can't just assume 'everything is fine', so you are right to seek other instrumented opinions.

Once you verify the (back-of-dash-mounted) instrument regulator voltage, you can calibrate/test the system of gauge, regulator, and sender by using a pot of hot-able water, a good standard thermometer, and some clip leads. (Request details if needed.) Calibrate may be a misnomer, because there's not a tweakable adjustment in a standard system. But you'll know if it's close enough to trust.

After doing most of the above over the years, I found that a thermostaticallyi-controlled electric pusher fan was necessary for slow-speed parade use. The resulting peace of mind is a good thing.

Ken
 

todd reid

Gold Level Sponsor
Some like it hot!

In addition to all the previous posts, which contain good advice, I would add that it looks like your horn holes are still wide open. Many of us have closed them off to prevent air from flowing around the radiator. There should be several threads here that discuss in detail.
Good Luck!
TR
 

65beam

Donation Time
hot

What are you using for the coolant ? Even though you're in Florida you should use a 50/50 anti freeze blend. Use of water only gives you a boiling temp of 212 degrees and can also result in pockets of steam and air pockets which can cause overheating along with other corrosion problems. Using a 50/50 anti freeze in a pressurized system will raise the boiling temp to around 270 degrees which results in not forming the steam pockets or air pockets along with excellent heat transfer. Full strength anti freeze/coolant will result in overheating due to the lower heat transfer properties of the concentrated ethylene glycol.
 

Mjbeanie

Bronze Level Sponsor
Thanks for all the feedback. I am still troubleshooting. I do think the gauges are correct. I cannot speak to the condition of the engine block. I have never done work on the block itself. Just working on the best/easiest way forward.

Since it runs beautifully and sooo cool while moving, I am leaning toward either the pusher fan or changing the water pump. I am using PEAK 50/50 premix coolant.

Since the water pump is an antique, that will likely be the next stop, and would be goodness in any case. I plan to go to classic sunbeam. I will let you know how I do. After that the supplemental fan..

Thanks again for all the great feedback and happy holidays. I will update the thread when the water pump is installed.
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
I doubt it's a water pump issue. If it was a pump problem you would have issues when cruising. This is a classic Alpine issue. I and about half the members here have had similar problem at idle. I solved most of the problem by having my radiator recored with more rows. But even then I still have a problem if it sits idling or moving slowly on a warm or hot day. It helps to have a heater core in place as you can use that to bring the temp down by turning on the heat and blower. But I think the real solution is to add an electric fan. I have not done that, but keep thinking I should. I highly recommend adding an electric fan before you replace the water pump. Go to a junk yard and get a pusher fan and put it in front of the radiator.

Tom
 

Alpine66

Donation Time
Very good suggestions, one that I might add which is not a likely culprit but worth checking is the lower radiator hose, does it have the spring/coil to keep it from collapsing?
 

volvoguys

Diamond Level Sponsor
The OP started this thread with "still troubleshooting cooling system woes on my Alpine" to suggest that his ongoing cooling issues weren't solved by replacing parts, so far.

Mjbeanie, I don't see where you responded to my earlier question about the previously removed heater core. Were the water outlets for the heater core blocked off or have they been routed back into the engine and, if so, from where to where?

Mark ..... volvoguys
 

Alpine66

Donation Time
That's an issue on tigers, not an issue on alpines.

Really? It happens to many engines, as the water pump suction can collapse the lower hose if its not the spring/correct type of hose for the suction side, especially after the hose is hot.
 
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