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Front suspension swaps?

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EriktheAwful

Donation Time
I thought I'd heard somewhere about a Mustang II front suspension swap. Would that require a complete swap, including crossmember? Or is there a spindle swap possible? How does it affect steering geometry?

I'm not so sure that my hastily planned Ford Tempo brake swap is feasible, and I'm having a hard time finding a replacement stock front wheel bearing seal at the local Autozone.
 
C

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
EriktheAwful said:
I thought I'd heard somewhere about a Mustang II front suspension swap. Would that require a complete swap, including crossmember? Or is there a spindle swap possible? How does it affect steering geometry?

I'm not so sure that my hastily planned Ford Tempo brake swap is feasible, and I'm having a hard time finding a replacement stock front wheel bearing seal at the local Autozone.
Click to expand...

Although you can install a complete MustANG II Front end with much work which I did doriginally on the 62 when I built my V6 way back in 1979 I would go with a spindle swap.I went back to the Sunbeam crossmeember when I redid the car with a ford racing 302.Lots of meat in the Mutt II spindles to redrill to fit the sunbeam.Tie rod ends etc are larger diameter than the Mustang.You can install them for a front or rear steering arm configuration.The front for using a Mutt II rack and pinion.I did fit to see if the rear steering arm setup would work.In my opinion it would with the calipers being front mounted.

Steering geometry is easy to adjust camber and castor.I do my own alignment.You will still need the crossmember shims.You do not need to remove the front end for this swap
 
S

shapeshaver

Donation Time
I am doing my best to keep all the stock Alpine geometry and steering. I would like to upgrade to a more modern spindle, but how does it effect the original suspension and steering geometry?

How close in size is the Mut II spindle to the Alpine? Are they the same distance between the upper and lower ball joints? Are the steering arms the same length from the ball joint pivot centers and the steering tierod hole? Does the Steering arm have the same angle as the stock Alpine arm? Effect on acerman?

A lot of questions I know, but thanks in advance!
 
C

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
shapeshaver said:
I am doing my best to keep all the stock Alpine geometry and steering. I would like to upgrade to a more modern spindle, but how does it effect the original suspension and steering geometry?

How close in size is the Mut II spindle to the Alpine? Are they the same distance between the upper and lower ball joints? Are the steering arms the same length from the ball joint pivot centers and the steering tierod hole? Does the Steering arm have the same angle as the stock Alpine arm? Effect on acerman?

A lot of questions I know, but thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Send me an email
 
E

EriktheAwful

Donation Time
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I'm finally about to spend the money on a set of spindles and a friend donated a late-model Fox body Mustang front suspension to the cause. I know Factory Five makes ball joint adapters for making the strut spindles double-A-arm compatible, but I'm thinking that for $20 more it would be worth my time to just go ahead and get the Mustang II spindles. However, the Fox body stuff includes calipers, rotors, and brackets. I don't have any Mustang II brake stuff, and that's the whole reason I need to convert spindles - Sunbeam brake parts are just too rare and costly to justify buying them. Can I mount the Fox body stuff to the Mustang II spindles? Would installing the ball joint adapters wreck the geometry? Or am I just in uncharted territory all the way around?
 
P

pcmenten

Donation Time
I am also very interested in hearing about using Mustang spindles on a Sunbeam. It opens up a whole world of brake options.

But as far as front brakes on Sunbeams go, I'm using the F10 master cylinder and Mustang II calipers. Eventually, I'll be looking for high performance brake pads. That is supposed to be plenty good enough for a V6 Sunbeam.

I have a Jeep Commando Dana 44 rear axle that will someday be installed. That will also allow a disk brake option as well as a wide choice of axle ratios.
 
P

PROCRAFT

Donation Time
spindles

Chucks, the guy to answer all the questions on the Mutt spindles ,but I think before I reworked the Mutt spindles for the Alpine taper I'd look at using the moog screw in joints on the top and botton,as long as your going to modify why not go all the way! you can get the screw in sockets from Speedway Eng
having said all that we just built our own crossmenber and front suspension
(Chuck may chime in on this) I figuered by the time I modified the existing stuff I could just build what I wanted and put the rack in the correct place(in the case of the Tiger) as a side note while a little heavy we used a 8.8 Mountaineer axle and built a 5 link suspension set up for the rear.
 
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C

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
Mutt II spindles is an easy swap.Yes I seem to favor the machining to utilize the stock ball joints and tier rod ends. If you wish the Mutt II tie rod ends could be used. I have done that and no problems encountered.
So far I have used them for front steering re using a rack and pinion
I did sort out that they could be used as rear steering with the calipers in front.Mind you,it was only a study and never went ahead with it.

As to using the Moog parts Imhave not done that so I cannot comment.

One could use the whole Mutt II front end. I did that in 1979/80 and was terrific.
When I went to,the 302 I went back to a modified Sunbeam crossmember with the spindles an rack.the Mutt II,brakes are great
So far have done 3 cars
 
Alpine66

Alpine66

Donation Time
Do these need to be taken to a machine shop or can this be a diy?


Chuck Ingram said:
Mutt II spindles is an easy swap.Yes I seem to favor the machining to utilize the stock ball joints and tier rod ends. If you wish the Mutt II tie rod ends could be used. I have done that and no problems encountered.
So far I have used them for front steering re using a rack and pinion
I did sort out that they could be used as rear steering with the calipers in front.Mind you,it was only a study and never went ahead with it.

As to using the Moog parts Imhave not done that so I cannot comment.

One could use the whole Mutt II front end. I did that in 1979/80 and was terrific.
When I went to,the 302 I went back to a modified Sunbeam crossmember with the spindles an rack.the Mutt II,brakes are great
So far have done 3 cars
Click to expand...
 
E

EriktheAwful

Donation Time
I'm trying to stay as low-buck on this project as possible, but as much as I'd like to fab a brake bracket and use the free stuff, my welding isn't good enough to meet my personal safety requirement. I think at this point my best bet is to buy a set of MII spindles, Granada discs, GM calipers, and a pair of GM-MII caliper brackets.

Unless anybody's seen a bracket for mounting SN95 brakes on a Mustang II spindle. Anyone?
 
E

EriktheAwful

Donation Time
Patience finally paid off. I got a set of new Mustang II spindles on clearance for $120 ($143 with hardware and shipping).

Now the new problem. I disassembled the driver's front suspension and found that the series 2 cars don't have lower ball joints. Do later control arms bolt on? How hard are they to come by? The passenger side LCA is tweaked, so I'll be replacing it anyways.

That said, stock balljoints are crazy expensive - I thought $45 a ball joint for a Jag XJ6 was overpriced! I noticed the upper arms have staked-in ball joints. Has anyone tried replacing them with a more common ball joint? Or am I better off just going with some SPC Performance custom control arms?

I did find an inner bearing setup that I believe will allow me to run 11" 4x108 '87 Mustang GT rotors on the Mustang II spindle with GM metric calipers. Timken L68149P/L68116.
 
Chazbeam

Chazbeam

Silver Level Sponsor
Morse Tapper

So does anyone know what tapper size we are talking on the sunbeams?
And as i understand it morse taper is only one type standard..what was used on the alps?...my little craftsmen vintage lathe takes a number 1 morse tapper..

Oh and the series 2 has whats called a king pin setup on the lower...its said to perform well actualy when properly lubed...(mine was neglected and now needs bearings replaced)


Chazbeam
 
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E

EriktheAwful

Donation Time
I ordered four weld-in ball joint plates tonight. Yesterday I ordered 4 K5208 ball joints for less than $16 on RockAuto. I have a friend who does dirt track racing and is willing to help me weld the plates to the stock control arms. The passenger lower control arm turned out to be straight, but the edge where the sway bar bolts is dented - I can hammer that flat. He also has the 7* ball joint reamer so we can enlarge the holes on the spindles if need be. If this works I'll have a good handling, cheap to maintain suspension with amazing parts availability.
 
260Alpine

260Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
Rockauto shows the same bearings for Mustang II and 87-93 Mustang V8. It is a 10.9" rotor. The 90-94 Nissan D21 V6 4x4 twin piston caliper would be better than the Metric GM. Easy to fab a bracket. For a nice slip on rotor for the stock hub look at 2005-2007 Ford Focus. All rotors mentioned are 10.9" and will require 15" wheels.
 
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E

EriktheAwful

Donation Time
Rock Auto shows the Mustang II inner wheel bearing is a Timken SET13 while the fox-bodies use SET5. I looked up the sets on Timken's online .pdf catalog.

Mustang II
Timken SET13 Cone/Cup L68149/L68110 - 1.3775" bore, 2.3280" OD

Fox body
Timken SET5 Cone/Cup LM48548/LM48510 - 1.3750" bore, 2.5625" OD

I found the following bearing combination that should work, but I think I'm going to have to find a local bearing distributor.
Timken L68149P/L68116 1.3775 bore, 2.5625 OD

Why should I fab a caliper bracket when I can buy a pre-made bracket for the GM caliper for $16 each? I went ahead and bought them already. A lot of circle track stuff is cheaper than making it yourself.

For wheels, I'll be running a stock set of 5.0 turbine wheels with 205/50-15 tires.
 
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260Alpine

260Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
The numbers I compared were 1987 Mustang V8 with 1978 Mustang II V8. You would think the aftermarket would use the larger V8 bearing. National A5, same inner bearing for both. GM Metric caliper is OK but twin piston PBR type like newer Mustang and Camaro are better. The Nissan caliper uses the same thickness and diameter rotor as the 87-93 Mustang rotor.
 
260Alpine

260Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
Erik, You are correct on the wheel bearing fit. Rockauto was wrong on the National A5. I checked with Fatman . Another way is to get a couple of stock Mustang II/Pinto rotor/hubs and cut the rotor off to make a hub and use the 2005 Ford Focus slip on rotor. The Mgexperience site has a thread of a guy cutting off a S10 rotor for a hub with a angle grinder if you don't have access to a lathe.




http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?40,2520130,page=21
 
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