Wiring Harness Recommendations

[DaisyPusher]

Howdy, folks!

Well I bit the bullet and purchased a new wiring harness from Steve and figured since I'll have my car in the shop to solve the mystery as to why she just stopped running and won't start, I may as well ask them to install it for me. As much as I'd love to do it myself, there truly aren't enough hours in the day.

My question is this: Should I ask them to do anything specific outside of the basic install? My biggest concern is brake light visibility since SoCal drivers are some of the worst. That and sometimes at a red light the voltage dips pretty drastically so I have to keep it revved. Also with the lights on one light is dimmer than the other but when the brake pedal is pressed it's brighter than the other so I'm sure that will be addressed. I've read about flipping the boards to make the top light the brake light but I think I'd be in favor of just wiring both bulbs together to work in tandem.

I also plan on getting a mechanical brake light switch because no matter what I do the brake lights stay on until I lift the pedal with my toes. My apologies for the long-winded post; I'm worn out just typing this monster!
Any and all info/suggestions/personal experience/hate mail welcome!

Thank you,
Matt

 

[Alpine 1789]

Just my 2 cents:

Should I ask them to do anything specific outside of the basic install?

Many electrical gremlins can be traced to bad or insufficient grounds, so I would ask them to add additional grounding points. For example, I got rid of the stock daisy chain grounding system for the gauges when I rewired my car and individually grounded each gauge. I don't think that can hurt.

My biggest concern is brake light visibility since SoCal drivers are some of the worst

While technically unrelated to the new wiring, your best bet is to install LED lights. There have been some discussion here of these before, so it would be worth searching the site a bit to learn more, but you can buy a complete kit tailored for your car from Joe Parlanti: http://velocesolutionsllc.com/Sunbeam_c8.htm

sometimes at a red light the voltage dips pretty drastically so I have to keep it revved.

Have you had your alternator or generator checked?

I've read about flipping the boards to make the top light the brake light but I think I'd be in favor of just wiring both bulbs together to work in tandem.

Wiring the bulbs together is generally for the tail lights, not the brake lights, but you may be thinking of something different. I think it is a good idea, although not necessary if you switch to LEDs. The purpose of flipping the lights is to put the brake lights on top and make them more visible, but that doesn't have any impact on actual brightness. One other thing you might want to consider is adding a third brake light. That would certainly improve visibility.

 

[Toyanvil]

I added relays to all my lights, so they are powered from the battery and almost no load on the wiring and are a lot brighter.

 

[sunalp]

Matt,
Wait until you receive the wiring harness and the document package that comes wit it.
I have a way to install this that makes it almost invisible.

By the way, the lights and horn do run through relays with this harness.

Contact me when you get your package.
Cheers!
Steve

 

[DaisyPusher]

Matt,
Wait until you receive the wiring harness and the document package that comes wit it.
I have a way to install this that makes it almost invisible.

By the way, the lights and horn do run through relays with this harness.

Contact me when you get your package.
Cheers!
Steve

Will do. The check should hopefully be in your hands in a day or two. Thank you!

 

[loose_electron]

Is this the new design wiring harness (Rebel/Pete's/Paul???) or a new build of the original design?

I would add a 350A inline fuse at the battery, near the battery, and a 40-60A fuse (depends on how much your instruments and setup uses) at the point where the battery power splits off from the starter solenoid to go to the power connection at the ignition switch.

When it is all built and installed I would also put an inline ammeter into every fuse circuit, measure the actual current while in use, and adjust the fuse values down to about 2X the measured current.

 

[jumpinjan]

I buy mine from British Wiring
https://www.britishwiring.com/
Jan

 

[sunalp]

Is this the new design wiring harness (Rebel/Pete's/Paul???) or a new build of the original design?

Hi Jerry,
It's not the new design yet, I just have a different way to install the current harness. I'm going to be working with
Rebel to redesign the current harness very soon, I like your suggestions and will start a post asking what others
would want that's either missing ( like your inline fuse and battery power fuse) or maybe could be done better.
I want to make the fuse panel smaller possibly with mini fuses to allow more places to mount the panel. While the current
harness is good, I think with a few improvements it could be even better.

When I start working on the new design, I'll post for suggestions. If anyone has ideas they'd like to share please
feel free to PM me.

Thanks!
Cheers!
Steve

 

[loose_electron]

Hi Jerry,
It's not the new design yet, I just have a different way to install the current harness. I'm going to be working with
Rebel to redesign the current harness very soon, I like your suggestions and will start a post asking what others
would want that's either missing ( like your inline fuse and battery power fuse) or maybe could be done better.
I want to make the fuse panel smaller possibly with mini fuses to allow more places to mount the panel. While the current
harness is good, I think with a few improvements it could be even better.

The original design is not a safe design. If you add the two fuses I suggest to the Rebel harness things are pretty safe.

Pretty much every British car from the 1950's to 1970's used this sort of unsafe design. But then, a lot of people have had electrical fires, so that tells the story right there.

 

[sunalp]

Jerry,
When I said the current harness I meant the current Rebel harness, not the stock one.
Sorry for any confusion. I agree, the original harness isn't very good as I was a victim
of one of those fires!
Cheers!
Steve

 

[loose_electron]

Jerry,
When I said the current harness I meant the current Rebel harness, not the stock one.
Sorry for any confusion. I agree, the original harness isn't very good as I was a victim
of one of those fires!
Cheers!
Steve

All good just trying to keep everybody out of electrical fires.
As an EE who has done this stuff professionally I am a bit of an activist on this issue.

 

[65beam]

One of the first phrases I remember hearing from a professor at OSU was "keep it simple". Wonder how many Alpines of the total number produced have had electrical fires? Probably a small percentage.

 

[sunalp]

One of the first phrases I remember hearing from a professor at OSU was "keep it simple". Wonder how many Alpines of the total number produced have had electrical fires? Probably a small percentage.

While I agree with the simplicity motto, the stock harnesses are over 50 years old and have been through many
previous owners. Depending on the care and maintenance of the harnesses, who knows what might be lurking.
I know that my fire was caused by a PO that ran the headlight wire on top of the choke cable. Every time the choke
was pulled a little more insulation was worn until it shorted and started burning. Not a happy day.

 

[Series6]

For those still using the stock harness don't forget to keep this handy.

 

[PROCRAFT]

View attachment 16750 For those still using the stock harness don't forget to keep this handy.

Or let it burn to the ground and collect the insurance

 

[65beam]

While I agree with the simplicity motto, the stock harnesses are over 50 years old and have been through many
previous owners. Depending on the care and maintenance of the harnesses, who knows what might be lurking.
I know that my fire was caused by a PO that ran the headlight wire on top of the choke cable. Every time the choke
was pulled a little more insulation was worn until it shorted and started burning. Not a happy day.

You make a good point about the old harness. We have one car with the original harness. That's the red Harrington and it has less than 30K original miles and two owners . New original style harnesses are available and that's what I use. All came from the U.K. Considering what we do when we restore a car it would be a dumb move to use the old harness. The photo of the red car shows the original harness, the new harnesses are installed on the others but as I said they are original style. Nothing fancy and the only one with more than two fuses is the 69.

 

[loose_electron]

With the original wiring harness setups I still recommend the in line 350A at the battery and the 40A (value may vary depending on car setup) in the line from the starter solenoid (essentially the battery connection) that feeds the ignition key power.

With a little bit of cleverness, both those fuses can be hidden and the car is safer.

 

[Paul A]

One of the first phrases I remember hearing from a professor at OSU was "keep it simple". Wonder how many Alpines of the total number produced have had electrical fires? Probably a small percentage.

Perhaps a small percentage but that is no help for those of us who had one. The reason I designed and had manufactured my 12 circuit harness was due to a fire under the dash in Ol' Blue. Subsequently I had many customers who replaced their original wiring because they had a fire.

 

[loose_electron]

One additional comment on this. Fuses are all about the concept of "Safe Failure" - When something goes wrong in the system a fuse should blow open instead of a wire melting and the resulting fire.

In this particular situation, for ALL Sunbeams, new or old wiring harness, this means that you should be able to short any wire to ground at any location in the car, and the worst thing that happens is a fuse blows.

For the above reason, this is why I suggest the 350A inline fuse back near the battery. That protects the battery cable from the battery up to the starter solenoid, if it chafes through and grounds out. 350A is plenty to crank the engine (original 4 cylinder or the V6) - At some point you might make the mistake of shorting a screwdriver across a battery, and a typical car battery can put out 600A (or more) and melt the screwdriver. (been there done that)

In addition, I suggest the 40-60A inline fuse in the wire that goes from the Battery side of the starter solenoid, to the ignition switch. because this wire, and the Run power, and accessory power wires from the ignition switch are not fused either. Full battery current is available on all of those wires.

Those two changes should be introduced into all cars, new or old wiring harnesses.

Rant over!

 

[DanR]

Jerry, Me being a dummy, I can appreciate your rant

Thanks for the advice....and the warning!