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Where the heck is the brake light switch?

mike-down-under

Donation Time
Hi guys
My brake lights are "sticking on". I am assuming this is a fault switch, but am open to other suggestions.
If it is the switch, where the heck is it located? I thought it'd be on the master or slave cylinder but I can't see it there.

Any advice appreciated
Mike, Australia.
S IV Auto!
 

puff4

Platinum Level Sponsor
It's a hydraulic switch on the right-hand inner wing, not far from the booster, and directly below the coil. It's located on a 3-way join. These commonly fail over time - not sure if it's new brake fluids or what. Some folks say silicone fluids make them fail, but I have my doubts... I think they're just getting old! You can either replace it with a new one, or there's a nice bloke here on the forums that sells a mechanical switch and bracket that goes on the actual pedal assembly that's basically a permanent fix.
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
Kevin is correct as to where the switch is.. however im wondering if it's your switch.. i have had many switches fail, and they seem to take longer and longer and more pressure on the pedal to come on. I am thinking that you might have another issue. Normal failure means no lights.

As a side note, i have heard theories that apart frm the silicone fluid issue, the new switches are not great and seem to fail fast.. see if you can get an OEM one from a hillman etc.
 

agmason54

Donation Time
For a test remove the wires on the switch at the brake line junction. Do the brake lights go out? if so stick a little jumper wire between them. Do the lights come back on? Two yeses and you need a new switch. The homemade deal sold on here works but it I prefer stock. It is rare to see that switch go bad although I hear rumors of them failing alot which I never believed or seen in real life,
Agm
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
Mike, I agree with Michael in that your brake lights staying on might not be the switch, and that the original fluid switches seems to expire earlier and earlier for synthetic or whatever reason. I have one of the replacement petal switches just received in the mail, and it's nothing like "homemade," quite the contrary, very professionally made, exactly what you need, nothing you don't.
 

agmason54

Donation Time
If that thing is not homemade what is it? A muffler clamp, some wire and a cheap switch like I put in my Ford Exploder-Gee I wonder why it went bad? I'm sure they work. I've seen the same thing cobbled together in other backyard applications. I have more faith in what the Limeys installed than some overseas switch that looks like it came out of a Cracker Jack box. Let the gentle man in Australia decide for him self. Mike I have so many I'll send you for for free. just Email me.... A bad servo may keep the lights on and the brakes too but that was not mentioned....

Al
agmason54@hotmail.com
.
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
:D:D:D No, not quite big Al. I can picture some cobbled up stuff, as you describe, but this brake light switch isn't one of them. I'm looking at a correct sized "muffler clamp," a custom metal attachment with holes and everything in the right place, bolts that lock themselves without washers, wires cut to the correct length, the correct electrical connections you'll need attached with rubber covers, and even twist ties so you don't have to buy anything separate or go looking for it. The switch itself is plastic, as are they all, and easily replaced, it appears, should it ever go out. Original fluid switches are good, but they simply don't work, and this is a critical function.

Sorry for the hijack Mike, as I don't think you have a brake light switch problem to start with, but just my opinion, and I'm sure you'll decide for yourself.
 

agmason54

Donation Time
John,
Smiley faces have no meaning to me. Just because you bought one makes you an authority I suppose. How many Alpines have you owned and how many miles have you traveled in them? Of all the miles I have logged in many Alpines I have only seen one stock switch fail. It did the opposite of what Mike describes.It failed to light the lights. You must be easily impressed by a muffer clamp and a little peice of metal hooked to a switch and some wire.I don't care if the whole flock installs them. It is still a homemade piece that anyone could make at home.
If for some reason my switch died in BF Egypt I would roll into a bone yard, make $50 selling sunglasses and snag what I needed and when I got home take the junk off my car and install the correct part.
All I know about you is I remember you saying how the Wright Brothers were from North Carolina. Based on that statement your opinion is meaningless to me. I also don't see where you have an answer but only to agree with Mike King.Mike is AOK in my book. You are not even in it. Let's let Mike In AU tell us what the true problem is.At least I can offer a test. What have you got?
Only my close friends call me Big AL so you can knock that off too. If I sound a little testy well....I AM sorry
Albert
 

puff4

Platinum Level Sponsor
Actually, guys, Orville and Wilbur were born in Indiana and Ohio, respectively, and spent most of their formative years in Dayton, Ohio where they designed their first aircraft. They moved to North Carolina to test it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers

Can we get back to brake light switches?

The factory switch has been, in my opinion, pretty dang reliable. I have no experience with new ones, because, frankly, mine have never failed. However, I *hear* of a lot that have failed, and in my anecdotal experience usually it's associated with silicone fluid. The add-on switch is a viable alternative, though like many I'm a bit of a purist and prefer to use original equipment where possible.

As noted, check the circuit to ensure there's no shorts and that the lights turn off when disconnected from the switch. Also, you could wire an ohm meter over the switch and have someone press the brake to see if the switch is working. That should accurately sort the source of your problem. I'd try a new hydraulic switch myself, but YMMV. Being that the brake lights are a very critical part of keeping your Sunbeam from becoming a crumpled mass, it pays to make sure they're working properly.
 

mike-down-under

Donation Time
Hey guys

thanks for all the input. I may as well introduce myself a bit. I browse the forum heaps but have rarely posted. I bought a repro auto shift cover from a wonderful forum member a couple of years ago. I am actually an "incomplete quadriplegic" in effect a paraplegic, hence targeting a car with an auto - plus I have hand controls fitted.

My 64 Alpine was fully rebuilt by a guy in Victoria AU. It was an AU delivered auto, one of two that year I believe. The current trans is an Asin Warner 35, a Jap copy of the Borg Warner 30 but has an elec overdrive, so highway cruising is awesome. It has a lock-up torque converter too. The gear shifts are so solid that it causes wheel spin if on gravel. The donk has a mild cam, headers and two 40mm DCOE webers. The induction noise is louder than the exhaust! My little beast will just hit 100 mph.

Back to the brake light issue. I'll locate the switch and test as instructed. If it is the switch I will need to replace it with another one as the hand controls bolt to the steering column so there isn't much room there for the mechanical switch option. It is stinking hot here today and my shed is about 110 deg in your lingo, so I'll take a look in the evening & get back to you.

cheers
Mike
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Pressure sensing switches work, but they take a little bit of pressure to get them to work. A travel switch works as soon as you slightly press the pedal, which gives you a split second head start on the pressure sensing switch. If you aren´t sure you actually want to brake, you can just touch the pedal on a travel switch and it will let the guy behind you know you may be stopping or want to stop.

I know that many stock pressure sensing switches have worked faithfully for years without any problems. but when one does go bad, I think it is not wise to just give it a blow to get it to work again. It is defective and will soon fail again. I don´t know about anyone else, but I don´t want to take a chance my brake lights aren´t working.

I switched my old pressure sensing switch for other pressure sensing switches, and from different cars when my old switch went bad, but noticed that the brake light didn´t come on until I had applied quite a bit of pressure to the brake pedal before the light came on. I even tried one for a 1949 Ford. I decided that a travel switch was a batter way to go. A lot safer I think.

Jose
 

mike-down-under

Donation Time
Hi again,

I removed the wires from the switch.
Connect wires together, brakes lights on.
Pull wires apart, brake lights off.
Repeated several times, same result.

Put Ohm meter across brake light switch terminals.
First measure = infinite resistance/open circuit
Brake pedal down, closed circuit.
Brake pedal off, still closed circuit.

Seems the switch is "sticking on". I assume it has a return spring or diaphragm inside.

Worst case is the brake master or slave cylinder has broken return springs, but that would be very unusual. I am pretty sure the booster is fine, I can hear the diaphragm working with the engine off.

Al Mason, if I can't find one locally can I call you on the offer to send one? I am happy to pay for it & postage. I will be in touch if it comes to that.

many thanks all
Mike
 

puff4

Platinum Level Sponsor
Mike, the only check I'd do now is to jack up a front wheel and, with the motor running and handbrake firmly on, apply the brakes. Then, before switching off the motor, try to rotate the front wheel. It should rotate with moderate to little resistance. If it is very difficult or impossible to rotate you've got a stuck booster.

Assuming above is OK, it does sound like a sticking sender.

Do you use silicone brake fluid or Castrol LMA (or equivalent)?
 

mike-down-under

Donation Time
Thanks Kevin, I'll do that test tomorrow.

wrt brake fluid, to be honest I have never had to top it up but now I am shamed into admitting it is overdue for a flush.

I have Castrol Response (Dot 4) on hand for my other (modern) cars but if you guys suggest a non silicone based brake fluid, what brand should I look for. Last trip to the local auto parts store I saw nothing but modern silicone based fluids for sale.

cheers
Mike
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
Mike,

Al has given you a generous offer, but it shouldn't be to hard for you to get one locally. There are places in Melbourne and Sydney that stock them. Also there is a hillman/rootes enthusiasts group in the ACT that should be able to help you out.

IIRC your car also has a 2120 stroked alpine motor in it tours is the ex-Sully/Kent SIVGT alpine right? Does it still have the cortina minilite syle wheels on it?
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
Hey guys

thanks for all the input. I may as well introduce myself a bit. I browse the forum heaps but have rarely posted. I bought a repro auto shift cover from a wonderful forum member a couple of years ago. I am actually an "incomplete quadriplegic" in effect a paraplegic, hence targeting a car with an auto - plus I have hand controls fitted.

My 64 Alpine was fully rebuilt by a guy in Victoria AU. It was an AU delivered auto, one of two that year I believe. The current trans is an Asin Warner 35, a Jap copy of the Borg Warner 30 but has an elec overdrive, so highway cruising is awesome. It has a lock-up torque converter too. The gear shifts are so solid that it causes wheel spin if on gravel. The donk has a mild cam, headers and two 40mm DCOE webers. The induction noise is louder than the exhaust! My little beast will just hit 100 mph.

Back to the brake light issue. I'll locate the switch and test as instructed. If it is the switch I will need to replace it with another one as the hand controls bolt to the steering column so there isn't much room there for the mechanical switch option. It is stinking hot here today and my shed is about 110 deg in your lingo, so I'll take a look in the evening & get back to you.

cheers
Mike

Mike, i didn't know there was such a thing as a BW automatic with an overdrive but I've did an hour of research and haven't found a lot yet and isn't it strange sometimes specifics of cars are discussed and I, myself, don't always think of the car being talked about and that's quite a car you have. I have a BW regular automatic. I think I'm also the keeper of a batch of automatic plastic shifter covers that I've been thinking of sending to Rick at SS, or a vendor with a catalog, to make more available. I think there are four left. I'm a little beside myself. Very nice car, Mike.
 

mike-down-under

Donation Time
Hi John,
When I bough the car I was told that the same type gearbox was used in 1980s Toyota Crowns or Cressidas and possibly Volvos. The OD is 0.7:1

Michael,
thanks. I knock around with the local Rootes guys but we only meet two or three times a year. Canberra is a real desert when it comes to classic car stuff, in fact it is a desert in many ways.

WRT the engine, maybe you can tell me more. I was told it has been bored & stoked but I couldn't get more info. I am pretty sure it was a Sully car. (l bought it from Ron Kent btw) And yep, it still has the genuine minilites. A few people have offered to buy them.

Since buying the car I have rebuilt the Webers (the fuel galleries were so badly clogged I had to remove the bungs and drill them out), replaced the water pump and most recently the alternator. We drove it to the Gold Coast a couple of years ago and intend to drive it to Adelaide for the 2013 Bay to Birdwood - 1250km from here. My wife is not overly enthused!
Mike
 
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