-
Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.
If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.
Enjoy.
What should I look for; Buying an alpine from a co-worker?
- Thread starter the ghoul
- Start date
Rodewaryer
Donation Time
As I've been stating for 34 years, Tigers are just Alpines they took cutting torches to. The statement (the person with the Tiger fettish) makes me want to say things (many) I should not say here. I will be making it a point to avoid that 'kind' at all costs. I'd get my stuff via outrageous shipping from the UK before I paid any primadona while having to make excuses to do so. Insert puking sound here......
You (Ghoul) deserve a huge pat on the back and a list of compliments as long as my arm for taking on this project. Sorry I'm late to this already lengthy thread but I have to say since this is a Series III it makes it a bit more worth saving. Not that any Alpine should be let go but I think you get my point.
I lived in the UK for 5 years and let me tell you they have the intestinal fortitude of the Vikings when it comes to attacking rust problems. I spent a fair amount of time with Steve Smith of Coventry balancing (and friend Martin Kingshott) while they restored a serious basket case Series V, and it was worse than your S III. The cowl area adjacent to the vents even had perforation rust, and they repaired that as well, one of the most difficult areas of the car to do metal restoration to. They used the body rig/frame thingy (sorry) that you bolt to the car so you can just roll it to get access to everything. His car went on to memorable performances at places like Brands Hatch and got cheers (not jeers) for his performance from the Aston Martin pit crew, (his track position was between an Aston and a lightweight E-type). His specialty is engines and balancing so needless to say it was quite a runner.
At any rate kudos to you and don't let the negative comments get you down.
What you call negative comments were not meant to hurt him. They was meant to help a newby to Alpine ownership. I think it is disengenuous to encourage him, when 99% of the guys (including you?) on this board, wouldn't tackle this project. I know we want to be helpful, but when we encourage someone else to do something we wouldn't do, just to appear like we're a nice guy, doesn't help anyone.
Ghoul,
I know I'm running the risk of making you mad, because I really think this car is too far gone. I can tell you, that no one on this board would criticize you if you were to say, that on further inspection, you discovered more damage, and decided to not go forward with the restoration. I know that sometimes we make statements that we find hard to follow through with, because we worry what others might think, but we understand. I think we all have been there. No one will think poorly of you. I would be the first one to support you, if you were to change your mind and find a much better example to restore. I hope you don't get mad at me, but I feel the responsibility of giving you my opinion, based on my experience with trying to save a difficult vehicle. I won't say anything else on this subject, because if you decide to go ahead, I will not question your decision.
Jose
Ghoul,
I know I'm running the risk of making you mad, because I really think this car is too far gone. I can tell you, that no one on this board would criticize you if you were to say, that on further inspection, you discovered more damage, and decided to not go forward with the restoration. I know that sometimes we make statements that we find hard to follow through with, because we worry what others might think, but we understand. I think we all have been there. No one will think poorly of you. I would be the first one to support you, if you were to change your mind and find a much better example to restore. I hope you don't get mad at me, but I feel the responsibility of giving you my opinion, based on my experience with trying to save a difficult vehicle. I won't say anything else on this subject, because if you decide to go ahead, I will not question your decision.
Jose
Jim E
Donation Time
Ghoul this link http://rides.webshots.com/album/129345359FFOOwu should take you to some pictures of me putting floors in my SV. The car is a southern car and other than the floors was actually very solid, the outer and middle sills were good and the X frame. The inner sills were not so good and the floors were bad. Getting just the hole the pans go in solid was a job. I had not done this type thing before this car and the only way I could pull it off at all was with the help of a friend who is a long time body guy. My main tool at the start of this was a body hammers pointed end which I used to beat on metal to see what was rusted thin and would have to be replaced.
Do not know much about the VB panels other than the stamping does not match I believe thier other body panels are also a poor fit from what I have heard. The sills do not have the right curve to them as I understand it. The pan stamping is not a big deal I guess other than once in they are in and if it bothers you well... the outer sill issue I think would give the car a bad line and look funny. I got my pans from Jan and at one time he reported to be getting more pans also someone on the list offered to bring pans down when he came to the Invasion [least I think that is correct]. These are the untrimmed pans, I liked that part about them because it gives you extra metal to work with.
Looks like you should get your car jacked around until the doors fit the gap as well as posible then weld in some braces to hold things for when you cut the bad out, which looks to be about the bottom four inches of the car. Recall a fellow who did not take this into account on a Alpine he races and when he went to fit the doors there were issues... the doors were too long for the hole.
The car looks real bad to be honest but if you got to do it that is up to you. From the looks of it you need every patch panel made and some that are not made and it is a S3 so I am not so sure how some of the patch panels will fit due to most stuff being geared to the Tiger type body. Here I would ask questions about the outer body pieces you will need to see if the curves are right being tigers are non fin there could be an issue. This may sound nuts but if you are set on fixing this one you might want to look for a rust free roller as a sheet metal donor a 3,4 or 5 would give you most of the stuff you need and buying a donor might be cheaper than buying all the patch pieces and that includes buying a plasm cutter to chop it up with.
After doing the floors on my car I decided I hate rust repair it is hard dangerous work. For me I will not take on even the level of repair I did on my car for any common car. Now a Tiger or harrington or race history car yes but not an everyday run of the mill Sunbeam. There are too many solid or failed projects out there for cheap.
You should really hit the Invasion and look at some cars and talk with folks it will be worth every cent and minute even if you fly in for the day.
Good luck with the project.
Regards jim
Do not know much about the VB panels other than the stamping does not match I believe thier other body panels are also a poor fit from what I have heard. The sills do not have the right curve to them as I understand it. The pan stamping is not a big deal I guess other than once in they are in and if it bothers you well... the outer sill issue I think would give the car a bad line and look funny. I got my pans from Jan and at one time he reported to be getting more pans also someone on the list offered to bring pans down when he came to the Invasion [least I think that is correct]. These are the untrimmed pans, I liked that part about them because it gives you extra metal to work with.
Looks like you should get your car jacked around until the doors fit the gap as well as posible then weld in some braces to hold things for when you cut the bad out, which looks to be about the bottom four inches of the car. Recall a fellow who did not take this into account on a Alpine he races and when he went to fit the doors there were issues... the doors were too long for the hole.
The car looks real bad to be honest but if you got to do it that is up to you. From the looks of it you need every patch panel made and some that are not made and it is a S3 so I am not so sure how some of the patch panels will fit due to most stuff being geared to the Tiger type body. Here I would ask questions about the outer body pieces you will need to see if the curves are right being tigers are non fin there could be an issue. This may sound nuts but if you are set on fixing this one you might want to look for a rust free roller as a sheet metal donor a 3,4 or 5 would give you most of the stuff you need and buying a donor might be cheaper than buying all the patch pieces and that includes buying a plasm cutter to chop it up with.
After doing the floors on my car I decided I hate rust repair it is hard dangerous work. For me I will not take on even the level of repair I did on my car for any common car. Now a Tiger or harrington or race history car yes but not an everyday run of the mill Sunbeam. There are too many solid or failed projects out there for cheap.
You should really hit the Invasion and look at some cars and talk with folks it will be worth every cent and minute even if you fly in for the day.
Good luck with the project.
Regards jim
thank you very much.
I might need the contact info for your metal supplyers
this car makes little seance to me... The tops of the weel arces, the cowl area and all the metal higher than 1 foot from the floor is just fine.
this is a pic of the heater cowel, an area that would be rotted through on a northern car.
The only thing that I can think of is it was a southern car that spent a lot of time with its belly on the ground.
I might need the contact info for your metal supplyers
this car makes little seance to me... The tops of the weel arces, the cowl area and all the metal higher than 1 foot from the floor is just fine.
this is a pic of the heater cowel, an area that would be rotted through on a northern car.
The only thing that I can think of is it was a southern car that spent a lot of time with its belly on the ground.
Jim E
Donation Time
Think the water would not stand in the heater box would drain out on the floors. These car always get water in them and it is soaked up by the jut and carpets then just rusts the bottoms out and rust never sleeps.
How are the bottoms of the doors? have you beat on the frame and spring mount points, is the trunk floor like swiss cheese? Some of the car have an issue with rust in the cowl vent area but think it is mostly SV cars. This is a real hard to fix as it is a double thickness with a blind area.
The cars just leak and even solid cars tend to have floor pan issues, toss in rust from salt for northern cars and it can be real bad.
Cannot help much with sheet metal other than to tell you to ask Jumpin jan if he has any or if by chance one of the Canadian fellows brings some south to the Invasion. The untrimmed floors use to come from the a guy up that way and is the source the Martel gets his from or at least was. I do not have contact info for the guy who stamps them. One great thing about these pans is they are made of a fairly soft metal that is easy to work, this really helps you when it comes to bending flanges and curves for fitment.
How are the bottoms of the doors? have you beat on the frame and spring mount points, is the trunk floor like swiss cheese? Some of the car have an issue with rust in the cowl vent area but think it is mostly SV cars. This is a real hard to fix as it is a double thickness with a blind area.
The cars just leak and even solid cars tend to have floor pan issues, toss in rust from salt for northern cars and it can be real bad.
Cannot help much with sheet metal other than to tell you to ask Jumpin jan if he has any or if by chance one of the Canadian fellows brings some south to the Invasion. The untrimmed floors use to come from the a guy up that way and is the source the Martel gets his from or at least was. I do not have contact info for the guy who stamps them. One great thing about these pans is they are made of a fairly soft metal that is easy to work, this really helps you when it comes to bending flanges and curves for fitment.
bottom of the doors are solid, bit of surface rust but nothing some sandblasting wont fix. I dosent look like its thru at all.
Trunk is good. the trailing edge is rotted away from the pinch and the Left and right rail covers are rotted.
Im planning to put in a pan but it wouldnt be nessesary in this case..
yah I got under it with a small phillips screw driver and poaked the hell out of it. the only thing frame wise that was spongy was the seat supports. rockers, x frame, front and rear rails are good.
little off the subject of rot but I peeld the dash pad and revield the stock color. I love it! its like a baby blue metalic, but heavy on the blue.
Trunk is good. the trailing edge is rotted away from the pinch and the Left and right rail covers are rotted.
Im planning to put in a pan but it wouldnt be nessesary in this case..
yah I got under it with a small phillips screw driver and poaked the hell out of it. the only thing frame wise that was spongy was the seat supports. rockers, x frame, front and rear rails are good.
little off the subject of rot but I peeld the dash pad and revield the stock color. I love it! its like a baby blue metalic, but heavy on the blue.
the leaks seem alot more likely than what I though.
mikephillips
Donation Time
If it makes you feel any better I replaced all 3 rocker panels on each side of mine, as well as all 4 floors. If I hadn't had the car for so many years, driven it from Ohio to California and back, and generally had many memories with it then it probably wouldn't have been worth it. We all do things others sometimes look at and wonder exactly how sane we are.....
And if you want, I can bring a VB rocker and a correct one alone to Invasion and you can see the difference. The VB one can be used but requires some rework.
And if you want, I can bring a VB rocker and a correct one alone to Invasion and you can see the difference. The VB one can be used but requires some rework.
cool,
Ill let you know, Im still not sure I will be able to make it.
Im still holding out hope that I will run across some one parting out an alpine that died from a hit to the rear that I can get the whole floor clip from;
down the middle of the trans tunnel, across the firewall at trans tunnel level, and across the middle of the riser for the riders seat.....
that would be the best way to deal with the drivers side. passingers I can get away with some home fabbed patches here and there and an exteriror rocker, inner fender, and inner fender splash shield.
I dont mind sheet metal work. It just makes it 20 times easier if you have the correct metal and just need to tack it into place.
Ill let you know, Im still not sure I will be able to make it.
Im still holding out hope that I will run across some one parting out an alpine that died from a hit to the rear that I can get the whole floor clip from;
down the middle of the trans tunnel, across the firewall at trans tunnel level, and across the middle of the riser for the riders seat.....
that would be the best way to deal with the drivers side. passingers I can get away with some home fabbed patches here and there and an exteriror rocker, inner fender, and inner fender splash shield.
I dont mind sheet metal work. It just makes it 20 times easier if you have the correct metal and just need to tack it into place.
bill, you know as well as I do (living in the rust belt as well) If you want a solid body car around here you either need to get good at metal work and love it, or brake the bank finding a clean shell, or paying some one to do it for you!!
I chose the former.
Cars/bikes/toys come and go but if you learn something from them (or collect some fun tools) its worth it in the end.
good example of this.
Priced out the media blasting for the car $700 was the lowest price and that didn’t include the underbody (no one has a rotisserie). I found a 7hp 60 gallon air compressor for $620 and a hand held sandblaster for $30... I went for doing it my self and collecting the tools!!!
Yeah its more nasty dirty work for me, but I get a new good compressor and the ability to sandblast what ever I want....
I chose the former.
Cars/bikes/toys come and go but if you learn something from them (or collect some fun tools) its worth it in the end.
good example of this.
Priced out the media blasting for the car $700 was the lowest price and that didn’t include the underbody (no one has a rotisserie). I found a 7hp 60 gallon air compressor for $620 and a hand held sandblaster for $30... I went for doing it my self and collecting the tools!!!
Yeah its more nasty dirty work for me, but I get a new good compressor and the ability to sandblast what ever I want....
I understand where you are coming from, I am a die hard DIYer. There is very little that has been done to my car that I did not do. But I am one of the curious few that cannot do sheet metal work and also hate it. It does not help one bit that I find rust to be the biggest butt dragger in the world. It actually depresses me. I started out with a poorly repaired rusty car. A rust free shell came along for $1400 delivered and I snapped it up. I consider it the best money I spent on Alpines. That $1400 would barely buy the parts to do the floors (properly) that the old car needed.
As an aside, please do not think that I think you are being irrational. If we were rational and operating on dead center, we'd never get into Alpines.
Bill
As an aside, please do not think that I think you are being irrational. If we were rational and operating on dead center, we'd never get into Alpines.
Bill
bill I love that quote,
I just printed it out and put it in my cubical next to the pictures of my car!!!
I admit if I could find a clean shell it would be tempting but I feel my hands are tied on that one. because the numbers on the cowel, match the numbers on the block, and because its a rare color option I feel it would be a disgrace to re-shell this car and brake up the winning combo....
metal work isnt that bad... I started out just buying an $800 linclon 110volt mig welder and playing around. I then started taking mig classes from time to time at my community college... For me the hardest part is knowing when to stop working the panel and just leave the rest to putty and sanding. You will end up with paper thin panels by the time you tack and smooth it perfectly.
yeah this one I admit might be beyond my grasp but thats just how I love it. Take on a project thats twice as much as you think you can handel!!
things are looking up though, Im talking with a guy right now that has a soild rear clip with most of the floor still attached!!
I hope that goes some where.
Bought my self a donner car today!
Found this on craigslist and picked it up for $1300
It’s a near complete 67 series 5 code 100
Floors are solid, dog leg is solid, a small patch of rust in the trunk frame rail, front inner fenders are rotted, along with the front wheel well splashes, and the rest of the common exterior spots.
Plus side is it has a good drive train, solid hood, solid doors and other nick-nacks I can sell off and recoupe some of my expense. It also has a good interior, and a good re-production soft top I could use… Interior is black so its not right for the 3 but its good enough to get her on the road again…. Now it’s a matter of a lot of metal work…
Found this on craigslist and picked it up for $1300
It’s a near complete 67 series 5 code 100
Floors are solid, dog leg is solid, a small patch of rust in the trunk frame rail, front inner fenders are rotted, along with the front wheel well splashes, and the rest of the common exterior spots.
Plus side is it has a good drive train, solid hood, solid doors and other nick-nacks I can sell off and recoupe some of my expense. It also has a good interior, and a good re-production soft top I could use… Interior is black so its not right for the 3 but its good enough to get her on the road again…. Now it’s a matter of a lot of metal work…
RootesRooter
Donation Time
How's the underside: frame, rear spring mounts, etc.?
crusty but solid
not too worried about it, the only thing I need from that metal is the drivers seat support rail and the far end of the passingers support rail and those look perfect