• Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

upper A arm location???

M

Mike snyder

Donation Time
Well... I ran into a little problem while reinstalling the front end today. So here is the question... Should the upper A arm fulcrum be bolted to the upper set of holes on the cross member or the lower set? As it sits now mine are in the upper set of holes and the cross member will not seat properly.
Mike Snyder
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Mike, There is just one set of holes on the SV crossmember, quite near the top. On mine there is one hole down low on each side, but clearly it is not for mounting the upper A frame.

See this drawing:

http://www.rootes1725cc.info/wsm145/wsm_f/f_04.htm

Are you using a SIII crossmember with a Z Bracket for mounting the upper A frame?

Tom
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Mike, I went back and looked at the pictures you posted of your front end assembly. It looks like you have a combination of SIII and SIV components.

The upper A -frame is the newer Series 4/5 type. But it looks like you have the extra component, the Z bracket, used on the earlier series. This earlier Crossmember style basically used this Z bracket to attach the upper A-Frame, and also attach the crossmember to the body with that same bracket.

You say you do have a SIV, so I assume there are no holes in the body, on the inside fender well, where the bolts would go through the Z bracket into the body.

I think you can solve the problem by simply removing the Z brackets and mounting the A frame fulcrum directly to the 2 holes near the top of the shock tower as shown in the drawing I referenced.

I am only 70% sure the crossmember is the same on SIII, SIV, and SV, if you delete the Z bracket. Was this the original crossmember you removed from the car? Were these Z brackets on it? AND these same upper A frames?

Tom
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Mike, also take a look at the drawings of front suspension in the SS catalog:

http://www.rootes.com/catalogindex.html

Note all the extra parts including the Z bracket for mounting the fulcrum pin on the SI,II,III . That's what I see in your photos. Note also the SI,II,III, has a different upper A frame and different upper ball joint.

But on the SIV, V, there is just the nut plate, and a shim. The catalog dwg also shows another plate, but the WSM does not show that.

Tom
 
M

Mike snyder

Donation Time
My SIV is a very early one. All the front end parts are the ones that came off the car. I have the Z bracket and it does bolt through the inner fender well frame. right now everything misaligns by exactly the spacing between the hight of the two sets of holes on the frame cross member.
Mike Snyder
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Oh, wow, you do have a strange one- SIV upper A frame and ball joint, but SIII brackets. I guess that tells us that the crossmembers are probably the same.

From the dwgs I see in my older manual, I think the actual fulcrum mounting point is virtualy the same in either case. It goes right up against the shock tower, except for some shims between the fulcrum pin and the shock tower. And that's the same on either series style. It mounts to the shock tower in a pair of holes near teh top of the tower.But I cannot make sense of the drawings for the Z bracket mountings. The cross section view shows 1 Z bracket, but the exploded dwg shows 3 Z brackets!!!

But I think the key is that the main Z bracket that bolts to the car body, should be mounted upside down from the way you have it. I think your pics show it sticking UP from the back side of the fulcrum pin. It should be sticking down. From the cross section view the manual shows the following , starting from the inside surface of the shock tower:
Shims, then the fulcrum pin, then a plate extending up, then the nut holding that plate. Then bolted to the upper part of the plate are more shims, then the Z bracket pointing down.

Hope this helps. I think there was an earlier discussion on this and maybe some pics.

Tom
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Mike,

A re- look at the manual and I can see that the exploded view shows 3 Z brackets because it shows two different styles of assembly.

One style has a two Z brackets per side and one style has one Z bracket and one straight plate.

Regardless, my notes above are correct. The Z bracket that mounts to the body points downward, such that the bolts into the body are almost on the same alignment as the bolts through the fulcrum pin.

And I am 95% sure the proper fulcrum pin mounting holes are the one near the top. I suspect the extra holes are a modification someone added.

Tom
 
M

Mike snyder

Donation Time
So, here is what is going on... Did I mention that my car was owned by Bob Hagin... It seems that he modified the front suspension way more than I thought. He drilled new upper fulcrum pin mounting holes in the cross member to accommodate shorter stiffer springs. This works (or appears to) if the Z brackets are upside down and swapped side for side. My measurements now claim that it will fit in the car. I'll find out tomorrow when I try to install the cross member again.:)
Mike Snyder
 
M

mikephillips

Donation Time
Early series IV cars also had the Z brackets, I've taken them off a couple in dismantling. Don't know exactly when they stopped. The rest of the front end though should be assembled exactly as the later cars, unless as in this case it's been modified by a previous owner.
 
C

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
I have removed said Z brackets on the 62 and never had a problem.Mind you I only had almost 200,000 miles to go by. Impressive milage.YOU BET.I have modified front crossmembers on both cars.I believe the engineers at the time thought extra attachments were a good thing.
I'm also building another modified front end at this time.
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Mike, Chuck's thoughts look like a plan! I strongly suspect that the body connection via the Z brackets is totaly redundant and unnecessary. Apparently the Z brackets were eliminated during the early part of the SIV run, and it appears that no other changes were made at that time. This is somewhat confirmed by Chuck's testimony that he has had no problems since he deleted the brackets. So my suggestion is to delete them altogether. It will make attaching the crossmember easier, and it will also make it easier to replace the spring and move the A-frame mount back to it's factory position should you ever decide to do so. It will also make it easier to do the alignment, adding or deleting shims as needed, without the added hindrance of the Z brackets. And it will still be as "original" as most SIVs.

Good luck, Tom
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top