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Ultimate tiger

atallamcs

atallamcs

Donation Time
Hi all,

I am about to build (restore) another Tiger, hopefully starting this summer. I realize what it takes to build a stock tiger but that is not where my interest lie. I will build a personalize or modified tiger--maybe what Rootes would build today with available technology and less restrictive budgets.

Any thoughts as to enhancements to engine, transmission, suspension, wheels etc. that would make up the "ultimate" tiger. Just the high points maybe--such as stroked 302 (331) with 400 out of crate hp/torque mated to a five speed with posi. In the end, I am looking for an outstanding performer yet an every other day driver.

Thoughts?
Bill Atalla
 
64beam

64beam

Donation Time
Hi Bill,

Firstly I would love to see you build a Tiger as your attention to detail with your other cars. An Australian club member finished his "toy or play" Tiger last year with a very high build quality. It is however a wolf in sheeps clothing. He started with a 302 then stroked it to a 347, four barrel manifold & carb, four wheel disc brakes from an RX-7, WRX power steering rack and 14" rims. There is probably more to tell, but that's all I know. Apparently it is producing approximately 3-400 Hp.
How would that be for a start?

Regards, Robin.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Bill, I have not made a study of todays cars, but a casual glance at specs tells me the induction system is "where its at". Smaller engines, heads that flow like crazy with a tuned induction system and sophisicated EFI seems to be todays setup.

You end up with a ton of low end torque, very good driveability and top end hp. I don't think that a bored/stroked anything with a carb on it would represent what a manufacturer would do today. Oh yes, an aluminum block or heads if possible. In fact, the GM 3.4 V6 is probably closer to what Rootes would use today than the Ford. Sure hate to say that, but as the Smurfs used to say, 'Truth is truth." Two hundred hp stock, probably 250 if your really trying.

Also, gotta ditch the stock front end and put in something that gives proper Ackerman and will accept huge aftermarket brakes. There were pictures of such a thing floating around the net a year or so ago.

Bill
 
TulsaAlpine

TulsaAlpine

Donation Time
New Design

:D
As an Alpine owner with the newer hot roadster Saturn Sky Redline, I have to agree with Bill Blue my Sky rocks with the turbo fuel injection set up, and its just a little old 4-banger. Side perk is I am getting 27.5 miles to the gallon so its the best of both worlds. Not sure what is available to buy on the market, one Sky person has the Mallet in his, the V-8 corvette engine talk about wolf in Sky clothing. Might to some research and see what you can find on turbo and fuel injection new technology.

Donna
:D
 
6

66Tiger

Donation Time
Front suspension & geometry was discussed on the Tiger Mailing list a while back.

Visit...http://www.toyzjunkie.com/

Click on New Tiger Suspension. It's a bolt on deal, not sure if is being produced yet (or will ever be offered).

Paul
 
mike_also

mike_also

Diamond Level Sponsor
I'm not recommending this, but mention it because I'm curious. Is it possible to carve out enough space in the engine bay to transplant a last or near-last 5.0 in its most compact form with all necessary attendant equipment (EFI, emissions, etc.) and no unnecessary (a/c, p/s, etc.)?
 
tfctpa

tfctpa

Donation Time
That's impressive! Just emailed them to see if it is being produced and at what cost. Will update board with answer.

Got this reply 30 minutes after asking.

I have been busy building the front ends as we speak. Made some major changes to the original and started fabrication. I have a very long "wish-list" at this time and I'm pretty much booked through the New Year. Looking at around $3500.00, depending on brake option, bolt pattern, etc.

Mike
​
Tom

66Tiger said:
Front suspension & geometry was discussed on the Tiger Mailing list a while back.

Visit...http://www.toyzjunkie.com/

Click on New Tiger Suspension. It's a bolt on deal, not sure if is being produced yet (or will ever be offered).

Paul
Click to expand...
 
skywords

skywords

Donation Time
Don't we reach a point of diminishing returns with horsepower? I don't want to be a party pooper but the car will just swap ends with 5.0 liters? I have never owned or driven a Tiger so I am just asking. I am hoping my Quad 4 180hp will be a good balance.
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Rick,

There is no such thing as too much horse power.

The short wheel based Alpine/Tiger body, gets to be a handfull when it gets more than 300 hp., but it is an E ticket ride. You do need to be careful when driving it hard, but that is part of the fun.

I always dreamed of making a wider, (maybe 3"), and longer, (about 4"), Tiger, on a tube frame. It would not be as squirly, and would be a terror, with a 392 stroker Ford Windsor.

Of course, you have to remember that I am a power sick individual. Life is too short to live with only 98 hp.:D

Jose :)
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Rick, I think it probably depends on what you are looking for.

Last October, while looking at a built and beauty of a Tiger, I overheard an interesting story about power. A friend of the story teller had a "built to the hilt" Tiger, was cruising down the street at 30 mph. Light turned yellow, he rather absent mindly stepped on the gas and found himself going through the interection sideways. Yeah, that's exciting, but really, is that what you want? Seems he doesn't and as a result does not drive the car much.

I also had a Tiger owner tell me that while the Tiger power was fun, the Alpine is a nicer driving car more enjoyable for ordinary driving. As an example, the last time he had the Tiger out, he knocked the exhaust system off as he went over patch of road that was being resurfaced. I believe he mentioned headers. In an Alpine it would have been a simple bump.

Bill
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Bill,

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have the best of both worlds??:D A Sunbeam that handled like a stock Alpine, (or better), yet have super Tiger power?? Sigh. Iguess we'll just have to dream.;)

What I would like to know about the anecdote you related, is; did he have so little time in the seat, that he didn't know what it would do? Then there are guys that don't have the reflexes to be able to drive such a powerful, short wheel based car. More than once, I had my turbo Alpine go sideways on me, when I power shifted it into second, while under full power. It definately gets your attention, but thrilling. Wouldn't have traded the experience for anything.

Jose:)
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Jose, I can't answer your question. I got the impression the guy was afraid of what the car could do unexpectedly, like trying to hustle through an intersection. I think it is sort of like flying a P51 or Corsair. Great, thrilling ride, but forget for a moment what you've got and your dead.

Bill
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Bill Blue said:
Jose, I can't answer your question. I got the impression the guy was afraid of what the car could do unexpectedly, like trying to hustle through an intersection. I think it is sort of like flying a P51 or Corsair. Great, thrilling ride, but forget for a moment what you've got and your dead.

Bill
Click to expand...
Right. I like your analogy to the fighter planes you mentioned, because a Sunbeam with that kind of power, gives about the same sensation as a high performance air plane or motor cycle.

I think you will find out what the answer to my question is, when you get to drive your Alpine.

Jose :)
 
skywords

skywords

Donation Time
Sounds to me like more hp is not a bad thing if it is light weight? In order to obtain that you need more BMEP in the cylinders which shortens the fuse. I suppose I will understand once I'm driving my modified. The modern EFI systems I think have alot to offer. Bill Atalla I hope you find your balance of power with this new project and I look forward to watching it become a reality. If it's like your past projects it will be a real treat to see.

Rick
 
atallamcs

atallamcs

Donation Time
Tiger

Hi Rick,

Thanks for your note. I am trying to improve on the GT Tiger I once owned. It had just shy of 400hp and everything was balanced system wise to give you a chance to use some of that power with a dash of confidence. It is not so much about power as it is the entire package--brakes, suspension, transmission, tires--all things need to work together. The tiger will always be a tough one to handle as the power to weight to short wheel base makes for a character with a difficult personality.

An aside on engine choice--the 302 stroked to 331 with aluminum block, heads and cylinders, knocks of 200-250 pounds. Much appreciated by the front end of Tiger.

As for the alpine-- I like what you are doing--quad four. I also like the ecotec supercharged engine. I will build one with the later engine after the tiger.

Best,

Bill Atalla
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Bill, as near as I can tell, the 5.0 weighs in at about 450 pounds, hard to see how you could shed half of that, but even if the weight goes down only 100 pounds, you are lighter than the 2.8 (380 pounds)! You may have to go to Alpine springs.

Sounds like this could well be Jose's dream car. Are you going to use the newly available front end?

Bill
 
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
Bill Blue said:
Bill, as near as I can tell, the 5.0 weighs in at about 450 pounds, hard to see how you could shed half of that, but even if the weight goes down only 100 pounds, you are lighter than the 2.8 (380 pounds)! You may have to go to Alpine springs.

Sounds like this could well be Jose's dream car. Are you going to use the newly available front end?

Bill
Click to expand...


Bill (blue) the alloy block is 100lbs lighter than the stock SBF (and stronger) not sure how much lighter the alloy heads manifold and pistons would be, but could imagine it getting close to another 100lbs in total.. either way, heads and block should make the car VERY different.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Well, at the minimum additional weight loss to be expected, he is looking at less than 300 pounds engine weight. Significantly less than the 2.8, probably very close to that of the 1725.

Bill, better order up a set of Alpine springs!

Bill
 
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