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Torqing head for 1725cc engie

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by mamoose124, Jan 15, 2020.

  1. mamoose124

    mamoose124 Diamond Level Sponsor

    I just installed my 1725cc engine and am on the first 300-mile leg of the break-in period. My question is the torque speck for the final 700-mile leg of the break-in period. The Workshop Manual spec calls for torquing the head to 48 ft/lbs. However, the Roots Bulletin 68/3 on 28 Feb 19689 reduced this figure to 45 ft/lbs. My problem is I don't recall which spec I used when I initially torqued my head. In retrospect, I probably used the 48 ft/lbs spec as my manual was close at hand at the time. Assuming I use the original spec, is there a problem if I torque the head to the 45 ft/lbs spec when I torque the head for the final 700 miles? Or should I torque the head to the older 48 ft/lbs spec?
     
  2. puff4

    puff4 Gold Level Sponsor

    My advice is use the 48 if you're unsure.
     
  3. Gordon Holsinger

    Gordon Holsinger Platinum Level Sponsor

    Use 48 if you reduce to 45 you mite be replacing a head gasket!
     
  4. Tim R

    Tim R Silver Level Sponsor

    Rootes reduced the torque figure to prevent premature head gasket failure. Ideally all Alpine heads should be torqued to 45ft/lbs ONLY.

    Rootes did this because people were over squashing the gasket leading to premature failure. It is absolutely vital to use an accurate torque wrench as some will barely notice a difference of 3 ft/lbs! It is also vital to torque the head when it is stone cold and to to back each Head bolt off one flat before you re-torque it to overcome inertial stiction.

    If I was in your position and unsure of the torque figure used I would back bolt number one off one flat. Then torque it to 45ft/lbs. If it tightens up MORE than one flat I would leave it there (usually they tighten 3-4 flats). If it tightens one flat or less I think that you will have originally torqued it to 48ft/lbs and should go with that figure for all of the other bolts (tighten them in sequence). If you have torqued to 48 ft/lbs then you have just done what all other Alpines had done to them before the workshop bulletin, it is not a huge deal, it is just that 45 would have been better.

     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  5. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  6. Tim R

    Tim R Silver Level Sponsor

    Hi 65beam,
    Truth is I don't know if gasket quality has advanced. Eyeleted gaskets were meant to be the big modern improvement and look how prone to failure they turned out to be! We only ever use original copper style gaskets on our own cars so it kind of makes sense to follow the advice that Rootes gave.
    As always people will do what they think is best for them and their own car.
    Tim R
     
  7. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Tim...I'd say many modern replacement parts for our cars are worse as they suspect they are less used and less abused...

    So they build lower than oem spec.. Look at all the repro ball joints and rubber parts that wear quickly from India, China etc....

    Given you do higher millage in your cars than most id stick with your advice....
     
  8. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    I guess if current parts don't meet specs then we're all in trouble. SS tells me his parts are made using originals as patterns. I've known Rick for 40 years and I have no reason to doubt what he says. I may not have the parts problem because for decades I've been collecting NOS and older parts that date back to when the cars were being built. I also have many current production new parts in stock. I've added many parts since this photo was taken. When Doug has rebuilt suspensions for me he's happy with the original QH pieces I have. 107_1047.JPG If something breaks I can either rebuild or replace. If owners intend to keep the cars for years I would suggest buying and stocking parts.
     
  9. Gordon Holsinger

    Gordon Holsinger Platinum Level Sponsor

    Bob, I have been stockpiling parts for years, but not like you. Just bought a set of nos valve springs for my SV, found a place in the UK that has the OD escutcheon. Alpine innovations has an OD relay that is a modified SRB 111 that has all of the stuff inside the case. Gordon
     
  10. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    If you're talking about the rubber piece that goes in the steering column surround I bought several in the UK a few years back. They're nice.
     
  11. Gordon Holsinger

    Gordon Holsinger Platinum Level Sponsor

    That’s it
     
  12. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    I saw on one of the facebook pages that someone said they were outbid for one of these. Must have been you.
     
  13. Gordon Holsinger

    Gordon Holsinger Platinum Level Sponsor

    Bob it wasn’t me it is a vendor in uk
     
  14. mamoose124

    mamoose124 Diamond Level Sponsor

    Any more suggestions about the proper torquing of the head? While I'm satisfied with the suggestions already received regarding torquing the head, I think this thread has gone somewhere else.
     
  15. bernd_st

    bernd_st Bronze Level Sponsor

    I'm torqueing all my Rootes cylinder heads since years with 66Nm which equals 48.6 ft/lbs. Never encountered any troubles with it...
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
    puff4 likes this.
  16. Gordon Holsinger

    Gordon Holsinger Platinum Level Sponsor

    I have allways used an accurate torque wrench I have a good micro adjusting wrench. I also have a number of friends who are professional mechanics who have loaned me tools that I would rarely use. I just had my torque wrench checked against my friends very expensive one difference +_1%
     

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