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synking carbs!

66Alpine

Donation Time
hello again,

Why do I need to adjust valves before I synk the carbs? Neither the owner's manual nor workshop mentioned anything about that. I have tried to adjust the carbs by both the throttle screws and the air/fuel mixture screws but the forward carb is always much louder than the other when listened to with a stethoscope...I am growing quite agitated, but will persevere and will not be defeated by an engine...

thanx again for your input and thank you Jeff and Robert,

Johnny
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
You need to know that all the inlet valves are opening the same lift, and ergo sucking the same volume.
 

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
IF you didn't mind taking the carbs off the intake manifold you could take a caliper and measure the throttle plate locations exactly. Adjust the stop screws so both left and right were exactly the same.

You could also remove your top to the dashpots and measure your jet height exactly.

Then, don't adjust one side without adjusting the other side the exact same amount - ever!

It is kinda a hassle but it will give you good results and as long as you always adjust both sides equally you will be in good shape.

Steve
 

66Alpine

Donation Time
dashpots??

Steve, Thank you for your info.. but I must plead ignorance as to what dashpots are..Is this something that is revealed when the top part of the carbs are removed and can you see the jets at this point or does the entire carb need to be removed as I suspect you are saying???

Thanx,

Johnny
 

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Yes, it is the tops of the carbs held on by the four screws. You'd lift out the piston, diaphram, and top. This would expose your jets.

You may not want to do this approach since the carbs are already on the intake in the car but it really is an easy way to ensure everything is in sync and your mixture is nearly a perfect balance.

I will have to post some images sometime.

Steve
 

Wombat

Donation Time
Johnny

The dashpots are the things under the big black plastic cap on the top of the carbs. They slow the rise of the carb piston on acceleration to stop the mixture leaning out. They do the same job as the accelerator pump on a normal carb.

If the forward carb is always louder than the rear, maybe the PCV valve is faulty and letting in more air than it ought to and upsetting the mixture on the rear carb?? That is a complexity I didn't have to deal with here in OZ.
 

Fastback

Donation Time
Also make sure you have the appropriate amount of oil in the dashpot cylinder, to create the proper amount of resistance of the air valve piston against the dashpot piston. Amazing how many times this is overlooked...or overfilled. 10W-30, or whatever you have in the crankcase. And make sure the diaphragms are not torn.
Wayne
 

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
Did you unlink the two carbs before you started adjusting the mixture? You have to be sure they move independent of each other, my book says you should be at about 2000 rpm for this. Adjust the airflow for each, then tighten them up, reduce rpm's until they are as low as you can get them or about 800ish. At that point you do the mixture. You do this about 40 times and then call the nice guy from the local Alpine club and buy him a beer... I buy about 40 cases a year.

Is there a trick to the back carb on the Series V? I cannot get a stubby or long screw driver to work there for beans!! Steering gear is in the way.
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
Say after me: "Weber." Then goodby to synchronizing, dashpots, torn diaphragms, mysteriously disappearing dashpot oil, worn needles and jets oval jets.
 

64beam

Donation Time
Say after me: "Weber." Then goodby to synchronizing, dashpots, torn diaphragms, mysteriously disappearing dashpot oil, worn needles and jets oval jets.

There is no need to scare people off Nick ;) . There are many people running the Stromberg carbies with no problems and with routine maintenance are more than adequate to help push our beloved Alpine's along. There are books around on these carburettors Johnny to help service them, but if you are a bit unsure it may be better to take your car to a carby specialist for balancing/tuning.

Good luck, Robin.
 

RootesRooter

Donation Time
I think the recommended oil for Strombergs is actually very thin, roughly sewing machine oil viscosity.

Also make sure you have the appropriate amount of oil in the dashpot cylinder, to create the proper amount of resistance of the air valve piston against the dashpot piston. Amazing how many times this is overlooked...or overfilled. 10W-30, or whatever you have in the crankcase. And make sure the diaphragms are not torn.
Wayne
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
There is no need to scare people off Nick ;) . There are many people running the Stromberg carbies with no problems and with routine maintenance are more than adequate to help push our beloved Alpine's along. Robin.

Huh? Anyone who's "scared" by that has a bogeyman problem. Seriously, though: I've tuned and rebuilt Stroms and SUs for 40+ years, and learned all the tricks for using flow meters and stethoscopes, and the set of 150CDs I had until they were replaced by the Weber were in fine fettle; in fact I sold them on the forum for a goody price. I guess I'm getting old and don't want to bother now, so the 32/36 is a welcome relief. Rather like hiring the local kid to shovel snow for me.
 

ozzie alpine

Bronze Level Sponsor
I think the recommended oil for Strombergs is actually very thin, roughly sewing machine oil viscosity.

I’ve heard this before, but its not recommended according to my literature, or any of the carby specialists that I have dealt with. Maybe its OK for fast-road or race, or cold weather, or maybe even for SU's, but for normal conditions it should be engine oil in Strombergs.

I've spent many years fiddling with twin strombergs, although I admit not on Alpines as yet. Difficult to get perfect, but will give good performance if you get it close. On performance Imp engines, a good set of Stromberg 150’s will give more power than a single weber 28/36, and can even give twin 40’s a run for their money, but a bad set will always give trouble.
A common problem with strommies that don't seem to want to synch is that there may be a leak around the brass spindle that holds the throttle butterfly. Sometimes this causes slight petrol leaks from the side of the carb, but it also creates an air leak on suction, particularly idle. Can be fixed using new spindles, but if the carb body itself is worn then its difficult to fix (unless you insert bushes). If you end up removing the carbs then check for wear in the throttle rods. It’s the main reason for having to throw Stombergs away. Most other parts are available for easy overhaul.

I find that the best way to set up, without using vacuum gauges, gas analysers or spark colour tools is to :
- disconnect the linkage (ie so they are independent) and remove air filters
- unscrew the throttle stop (idle) screws on both until they no longer contact the carb body.
- Wiggle the throttle a little on each and allow to rest in the closed position (to make sure they are both closed, but not forced shut)
- screw each idle screw until it just touches the carb body, then screw each one in by an equal amount, say 1 ¼ turns
- re-tighten the throttle linkage – from now on, only ever move both screws by equal amounts if you need to adjust the idle.
- Remove plunger from dashpot (where the oil goes in).
- Stick finger through each air intake and lift the piston. It should rise and fall easily. If it doesn’t, then the jet needs to be centralised. Not difficult, but I won’t go into it here.
- Screw each jet adjuster (mixture) up until it just contacts the jet. It will continue to screw upwards at this point, so it is important to see/feel carefully when it makes contact. I like to get an old pencil with an eraser on the end, insert it (eraser down) where the plunger thing goes, so that you can see it move upwards slightly when the jet adjuster starts lifting the jet. Alternatively, look through the air intake to see when it starts to move.
- Unscrew each jet adjuster by equal amounts (this is usually 3 full turns, but may vary for the Alpine? Need to check). This will be the starting point for mixture adjustment, but should be close.
- Start the car and warm up. It will be a bit rough, but set idle so that it will run.
- Once warm, carefully stick your finger through the air intake of each carb and lift the piston very slightly (should really be lifted by something the thickness of a bicycle spoke only, or small-size drill if you have one, but don’t let go!!)
- If engine speed drops, then mixture is lean, so unscrew jet adjuster slightly and try again. If engine speed increases, then mixture is rich, so screw-in the adjuster slightly. When correct, the engine speed should rise very slightly and then perhaps return. Repeat for second carb. YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO ADJUST EACH JET ADJUSTER BY MORE THAN HALF A TURN EACH WAY. Repeat process for other carb and then recheck.
- Once set, reset engine idle by adjusting each idle screw equally.

Better still, use a vacuum gauge to balance the suck from each carb, or a Gunsons Colortune to set mixture, but be careful not to fiddle too much as the baseline settings described above should be pretty good. If it differs too much then you have other problems, eg air leaks, fuel starvation etc.

Good luck!
 
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