sway bar

[skywords]

Has anyone ever made a sway bar for the rearend of the Alpines? Seems to me these cars need it. Or maybe my spring bushings are worn?

Rick

 

[alpine_64]

rick, adco still sells a rear sway bar. and have seen a few here and there for tigers and pines.

 

[Nickodell]

Rick; remember that increasing stiffness also increases understeer at that end, so adding a rear swaybar without simultaneously increasing the bar thickness (and hence roll rate) at the front can cause unwanted oversteer.

The converse also applies, of course. Simply increasing the roll rate at the front without a similar rear treatment can cause unwanted understeer.

 

[64beam]

Hi Forum,

I can't remember whether it was on the old forum or from a local club member, but I vaguely remember hearing that a rear sway bar does not work well on Alpines. Instead of the rear bar, uprated springs and larger diameter front sway bar achieved better results.

Regards, Robin.

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Forum,

I can't remember whether it was on the old forum or from a local club member, but I vaguely remember hearing that a rear sway bar does not work well on Alpines. Instead of the rear bar, uprated springs and larger diameter front sway bar achieved better results.

Regards, Robin.

Robin,

You are correct. My brother put one on his Alpine, against my advise, and promptly scared himself silly, when he went out to drive it hard. It didn't take him long to remove it and throw it away. The Alpine is pretty close coupled, and adding that bar, makes it want to bring the tail around in a hurry.

Jose

 

[skywords]

Wow a lot of advice and past history with such an add on. It is the side to side movement not the roll I was thinking of reducing. When I am cornering hard and encounter a bump that lightens the rear the car has a funny fishtail tendency that I am not used to. Maybe normal? It seems the rear axle is moving from side to side a little. I think I will start with a complete inspection of all rear suspension components with the car on the stands placed under the X frame. Thanks for all the input.

Got my Quad 4 and T-5 today. Let the head scratching begin! Tomorrow I take ownership of a nice Series II 900 miles away. I will emurse myself in my transplant and rear end inspection while I wait for it to arrive. Ive only been involved in Sunbeams a little over a year and I now have Four of them Are these cars great or what!

Rick

 

[RootesRacer]

A rear bar wont do anything to cure a lateral issue with the rear end.

This that will are:

1) A panhard or watts linkage.

2) De-arching the rear springs.

3) Going coil and running a good 4 link.

 

[alpine_64]

Wow a lot of advice and past history with such an add on. It is the side to side movement not the roll I was thinking of reducing. When I am cornering hard and encounter a bump that lightens the rear the car has a funny fishtail tendency that I am not used to. Maybe normal? It seems the rear axle is moving from side to side a little.

Rick

Rick, alpines and early cars with the lever shocks at the rear are quite partial to axel hopping when hitting a bump, the back steps out of line a little. When i converted to telescopics i added a bit of geometry to the rear and it locates the axel much better, but also makes the back very stiff.

 

[Jeff Scoville]

Ha Ha Ha!
It never fails!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-...2QQihZ003QQcategoryZ10076QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I wonder if I posted a question about NOS tire air, if a tank of it wouldn't show up!

 

[RootesRooter]

Tigers should probably never run a rear sway bar, as they're already prone to switching from understeer to tail-happy without warning. A long-time Tiger autocrosser in my area once tried a rear bar - for one day. It scared him silly. And that was just street driving!

I'd recommend a rear bar on an Alpine only for autocrossing or really serious driving, and then only matched with at least a 7/8" or even 1" front bar. (The late autocrosser Wally Swift used TWO stock bars in front, hose-clamped together!!) Performance shocks help, but don't totally compensate for body roll. With larger bars front and rear, both understeer AND oversteer will increase, with a roughly net neutral effect. The trade-off is more consistency and predictability over most surfaces. The body won't pitch and yaw itself off it's springs in slalom-type cornering; the inside wheel won't pick up and spin as much under acceleration coming out of a corner.

One problem I've come across with my ADDCO rear bar (like the one now on eBay)is that there isn't much space between the leaf springs and the frame rails where the bar attaches to the rails. Using the bolt and bushings supplied, it doesn't take much weight in the car or bumps on the road for the leaf spring to pound the bolt. Using a shorter bolt with fewer bushings avoids most spring contact but stiffens the bar up - maybe too much.

Dick Sanders
Kent, WA

 

[Pumpkin]

I'd recommend a rear bar on an Alpine only for autocrossing or really serious driving, and then only matched with at least a 7/8" or even 1" front bar.
>>
Say Dick, I have a 7/8" front bar I want to install. as you know I do a lot of hills and such, do you think it will be detremental(sp) to my steering?
Chuck and The Pumpkin

 

[mike_also]

Having spent a few moments in and under Wally Swift's autocrossing Alpine, it was interesting to note that he also had a rear anti-sway bar - not hooked up! He did, however, have an interesting horizontally-mounted shock set-up locating the rear end.

 

[RootesRooter]

Having spent a few moments in and under Wally Swift's autocrossing Alpine, it was interesting to note that he also had a rear anti-sway bar - not hooked up! He did, however, have an interesting horizontally-mounted shock set-up locating the rear end.

Wow! I never thought to look and see if the rear bar was actually attached! How was it suspended to keep it from banging around? I guess Wally must have kept it on for certain courses. Does anyone have a photo of the horizontal rear shock setup?

 

[Nickodell]

Wow a lot of advice and past history with such an add on. It is the side to side movement not the roll I was thinking of reducing. When I am cornering hard and encounter a bump that lightens the rear the car has a funny fishtail tendency that I am not used to. Maybe normal? It seems the rear axle is moving from side to side a little. Rick

I think that the confusion is a result of the American term "anti-sway bar," which suggests that having, uprating or adding a device that only affects the vertical movement of the suspension can mysteriously reduce lateral suspension movement.

The British term "anti-roll bar" makes more sense, since it increases roll rate and hence reduces body roll without substantially increasing spring stiffness and jeopardising ride quality, but I suppose if that term were to be adopted here some would confuse it with the bars some add on top to protect passengers in the event of a roll-over.

 

[alpine_64]

Wow! I never thought to look and see if the rear bar was actually attached! How was it suspended to keep it from banging around? I guess Wally must have kept it on for certain courses. Does anyone have a photo of the horizontal rear shock setup?

I think Eric G might be able to get some photos.

 

[mike_also]

Actually I do have a photo of that shock set-up hidden under a pile of dust somewhere. If I remember, the shot is too close to show enough "context" to see how it works. I'll see if I can find it and try to jump the next hurdle - scanning it in.

 

[tigretr]

I second that motion about not putting a rear sway bar on an alpine. I too had an ADCO on my car and in addition to the bolts constantly banging into the frame, it made my car really really loose. Scared me bad a few times. Then I took it off and the car was back to its very predictable self.

Live and learn. Thank goodness I lived to learn!

Brian

 

[Jim E]

Having had a good close look at Wally's car the thing I found most interesting was the double stacked front bars.... and how he did it

 

[RootesRooter]

Because I still autocross occasionally, I run a rear bar plus a 1" solid bar in front. It does what I want it to. But for street or countryroads driving, before going to a larger front bar, I suggest investing in Spax or Koni shocks, which make a world of difference over non-performance shocks. Then, scope out your current front bar bushings. I've seen sooooo many Alpines driven around with ancient rubber bushings flopping around like old gym socks. A few dollars spent here is a wise investment. And for a touch more stiffness, I'll bet that someone out there makes a harder plastic bushing that fits a stock Alpine bar.

Dick Sanders
Kent, WA

 

[skywords]

Because I still autocross occasionally, I run a rear bar plus a 1" solid bar in front. It does what I want it to. But for street or countryroads driving, before going to a larger front bar, I suggest investing in Spax or Koni shocks, which make a world of difference over non-performance shocks. Then, scope out your current front bar bushings. I've seen sooooo many Alpines driven around with ancient rubber bushings flopping around like old gym socks. A few dollars spent here is a wise investment. And for a touch more stiffness, I'll bet that someone out there makes a harder plastic bushing that fits a stock Alpine bar.

Dick Sanders
Kent, WA

Your right about the bushings I changed mine two weeks ago, I have the small bar but it made a big difference in the steering. Also changed brake pads and lubed all pivot points. I found that the man I thought did a nice job aligning my front end had left the L/H upper fulcrum pin bolts loose. The car is much better now.

Rick