Sunbeam Alpine For Sale – California Car – The First Owner Kept It For 47 Years!

[Mike Gulett]

Mike, I think what he said and you think are two different things. I think he said he could buy three cars in like condition for what you are asking for the "one" you are asking $29K.

I wish you well in your sell! It probably would make a few heads turn toward the ALPINE with a different attitude

Yeah, I misunderstood his comment. I have done that before.

 

[DanR]

Clearly a nice car but I'm on tne pig pile on this one.
All you have to do is shop here or be in Calif to find a car like this at considerable savings.
Remember the 1000s of these that were made. Lots of cars hiding in garages to come forth.

Those "hiding-in-garages are usually not "kept" in the same good conditions as the ones driven and cared for like the car in question.

 

[alpine_64]

Mike,

I think we all wish you well with the sale, and we are all Alpine enthusiasts here.. but i guess thats what makes us a little more sensitive to the Alpine market.. and indeed understand some of the unique issues that come along with that.

You have indeed found a decent survivor car.. but it has had bodywork. paint, the seats and floors, carpets and dash pad all show damage that requires replacement. There are non original parts like the wheel, radio and wiring hanging down.... not hard to sort.. but will either take some originality away.. or require finding appropriately paginated parts to replace them with.

As for values.. Alpines have a small following.. and its only getting smaller. Despite their successful SCCA careers which should give them some reflected glory.. most people (including owners) are unaware of their achievements.. and the fact that few have continued to race in historic.. which is the showcase for classics these days doesnt help.

As for the coparison to the AC Ace.. im sorry but the alpine/tiger relationship is not the same as ther Ace/Cobra one when it comes to value. While these cars have as imlar story.. in that one spawned the other... the AC Ace was a high end boutique car in the day.. and has always had a strong following. Values were never low.. supply was always limited and their recent jumnp in value probably has more to do with the eligibility to enter high end historic tours, rallies and races. Long and the short... it has credibility in its own right it didn't need the cobra for value.

I wish you well on the sale... dont take the value guide as a bible in regards to these cars.. the data is skewed by many factors.... especially in the case of our cars. I still think its a great car.. the wheels are a bonus.. but i think mid teens is achievable... you might make low 20's with the "right "buyer.

 

[Alpine 1789]

Hi Mike. I just spent some time on your website - previously I had only looked at the Alpine - and notice a couple of things. The first is that you are not the seller. That was evident from the start, but like many of us here, I was probably so focused on the asking price that I didn't notice it. Second, I never went past the Alpine ad. You have built an interesting site that is worth surfing around a bit. You clearly know quite a bit about the world of classic cars. Please don't let the drubbing you and the car have taken here keep you from coming back here from time to time. The ad just touched a raw nerve among the Alpine community. Among other things, those published values effect the use tax some of us pay for our cars. Missouri residents, for example, pay an annual motor vehicle tax based on the vehicle's value. I pay more for my Alpine than I do for my 2000 BMW 3-series convertible and have for many years. I could go to the DMV and fight it, as others here have successfully done, but the couple of hundred dollars I'd save just isn't worth my time.

This does bring up something I have always wondered about: why are the published values so much higher than actual sales? Rather than hijack this thread, I will start another one in the General Chit Chat section. You indicated that you know the editor of the Hagerty's guide; I hope you will weigh in there and maybe even bring him in on the discussion.

 

[Jay Laifman]

Cool car! I have those same wheels on my Tiger. But this is the first time I've seen mention that there was a different offset for the fronts! Mine are the aluminum version, not the magnesium version.

Those were expensive and rare options (though I don't know I'd be driving on them if they are really magnesium). I wonder if it speaks to other touches the original owner did that are not apparent in the pictures.

Note for example that the steering wheel uses the stock factory adjuster. Another expensive, interesting touch. Koni shocks too.

The engine looks to be in great external condition. And isn't that yellow coil the period Lucas sport coil? Factory original air cleaner hose and oil trap too. I like the acorn nuts on the valve cover - again, a lot of little touches showing its owner was the type who cared.

Another great thing about this car is that it appears to be very much what the classic car market seems to be appreciating these days: survivors, not restored cars. This car even has original rubber floor mats (some staining, but the passenger one looks perfect) and beautifully shaped original carpet over the tranny. Yeah, it's faded and worn. But, I never see the replacements form fit like that. Look how nicely the convertible top covers are laying. That's pretty rare. The lettering on the heater valves are all clear and unworn too.

Oh, and one other cool thing. My car came from Vincent Motors too and I have the same license plate frame! Interestingly, my car came with the same radio. So must have been a Vincent Motors option. I wouldn't strike it for that.

I guess the bottom line is that while we can argue all day long about if $29k is a good price for the car, this really does look like a great Alpine. I suspect if I wanted to get an Alpine like my high school days, this car would be high on my list of candidates - and like today's market, I would definitely value its older originality over a fully/overly restored one. Of course, I still have my high school Alpine! But I think this car is nicer than people realize.

 

[bing]

Sports Car Market places the value of an Alpine in #2 condition at $7500 on the low side and $12,000 on the high side. This is a 25% increase in the value they gave in 2013, thus out pacing the market at large.

 

[jdoclogan]

Enjoy the song it says it all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdPzuuksdKI

 

[65beam]

years

I do know that our alpines have agreed values in excess of what is being asked for this car. these values set by hagerty do reflect the cost of the restorations and also estimated cost to repair the cars due to accident damage. the 69 GT also has a similar value and the harringtons have even higher values set for them. would the average guy put out these amounts to buy one of these cars? probably not. there have been alpines and harringtons sold for high prices in the past. one Harrington had body and paint by the shop that has restored a couple of our cars and the others were west coast restorations. does that mean only a few cars could sell for high prices. no! it means there are buyers out there that know quality and what it takes to do a proper restoration and are willing to pay the price for a total restoration. a total restoration includes restoration of seat frames, drive train, etc. it's a great feeling to know what is under all that shiny paint and the upholstery.

 

[Warren]

Time will tell

Those "hiding-in-garages are usually not "kept" in the same good conditions as the ones driven and cared for like the car in question.

I refer to such as old growth and as for my speculative comment only time will tell.

This car is a nice example BUT there is little up side investment wise. It would clearly be an emotional buy at any amount close to the asking price. Some guys and written articles point to a bubble in the collector market. I am not sure which articles have contributed to the chatter about the water cooler.

The talk in particular is of boomers wanting to cash out of their vintage cars as the age out of the driving privilege diluting supply of available toy cars. I know of 3 Tigers that have owners who cannot drive them anymore.

That totally blows the use tax on collector vehicles on registration..

 

[65beam]

years

warren,
what is the "use tax" you mentioned ?

 

[P. Scofield]

Very nice project car. Reminds me of my son's BRG Series V we gently restored 11 years ago. But I have to say (and I don't mean to hijack the thread) but anyone willing to pay this much for an Alpine, should consider the rarest series, a Series III. And I certainly would entertain offers on mine for 20% less, and I have one of the nicest Series III in the country.
I would be happy to free the cash for my new project.

 

[V6 JOSE]

AMEN! Preach it brother.

Jose

Enjoy the song it says it all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdPzuuksdKI

 

[Warren]

Value Tax

warren,
what is the "use tax" you mentioned ?

Well sort of. This thread had a slight swerve to the right in its complaint that values batted about support some states personal property tax or use tax levied on vehicles.

Cali. charges sales tax on used vehicles, so imagine going to Cali. DMV and paying nearly 3 grand on this car. Of course there are several work around which, a law respecting type would never take

Some states do not care what you paid and they grab their little book and say pay or leave the state and register it else where.

Veering back o/t now

Yes, Paul that is a pretty SIII

 

[P. Scofield]

Thanks Warren!
$24,000 and it's yours!

 

[Mike Gulett]

Comparing two Price Guides

In response to comments about the Hagerty Price Guide and the Sports Car Market Price Guide:

I have written reviews about both and also compared them to each other. For the cars I selected they both set prices that were lower than reality. The Hagerty guide gets a much better rating from me.

I wrote, "I am happy that I do not maintain a classic car price guide. This seems like one of the most difficult things to do in the classic car publishing world."

If you are interested read here:

SCM - http://mycarquest.com/?p=33727

Hagerty - http://mycarquest.com/?p=34515

Comparing the two - http://mycarquest.com/?p=34897

 

[bing]

This seems to be getting off topic since we are talking about the values of Sunbeam Alpines. Given that, I would say Hagerty gets an "F" for their valuation of these cars. Forty thousand dollars for a '67 Alpine in #1 condition? Ten thousand dollars for one in #4 condition? No one in their right mind would pay that! They are saying that a '67 Alpine is worth more than a '69 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce. I have one of each and I follow the market closely. They are way off base on this one.

 

[bing]

This seems to be getting off topic since we are talking about the values of Sunbeam Alpines. Given that, I would say Hagerty gets an "F" for their valuation of these cars. Forty thousand dollars for a '67 Alpine in #1 condition? Ten thousand dollars for one in #4 condition? No one in their right mind would pay that! They are saying that a '67 Alpine is worth more than a '69 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce. I have one of each and I follow the market closely. They are way off base on this one.

 

[Warren]

Booty is in the eye of the beeholder

I think that is how it goes gimme an eye talian like yours any day Bing! the tops actually work.

Don't get us wrong but just like in Calif Real Estate if you over price a property it works good buyers away. Comps do not lie, but everyone who buys or sells cars fibs a little...

I went back and read some of the apple to orange comparisons. "Think bigger," Alpines and Tigers with exception of the MK2's are viewed by many as entry level collector cars. Get a clue this was the wrong place to come to gin up support for a very nice but completely overpriced car. Oh wait you did not even buy us a drink..

If you were looking for guys who buy cars rather than guys who build them, you need to visit cars and coffee in Irvine Ca.

This group is more in line with the Donut Derelict types 1.50 coffee guys who don't usually don't go to Fourbucks, I mean Fivebucks for a cup of Joe.

Add to the fact these cars while more rare now had some pretty big production numbers, oh wait I'm thinking bigger in the wrong way.

Do yourself a favor, go to searchallcraigs.com search and see several very nice Alpines that have been for sale for over a year at the 9,000 plus figure. This website will save the ad long after the Craigslist ad expires,they call em stale listings here in Cali.

I started off being silly but it gags me when sales type join a group an post up but reality are nothing more than a 21st century carpetbagger.

 

[P. Scofield]

I hope you're not referring to me Warren! I don't even know what a carpet bagger is?

 

[P. Scofield]

URBAN DICTIONARY:
In the post-US Civil War South, carpetbaggers were Northerners who moved to the South to take advantage of the unstable social, financial, and political climate. They were called "carpetbaggers" to imply that they were such poor, transient characters that they merely moved south carrying all their possessions in a carpet-bag. A carpet-bag, by the way, isn't a bag for carrying carpet, but a soft-sided suitcase or satchel made out of carpet.

Today, the phrase refers to someone who moves to a new location for opportunistic reasons.