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Steering/Suspension Issue

Silver Creek Sunbeam

Gold Level Sponsor
I have a long, sad story and I’m hoping you guys can help me make it a happy ending. You’ve never let me down before.

Some of you may recall that I had basically a catastrophic wheel bearing failure that ended up with me having to replace a hub assembly and spindle on the driver side.

I am now having major issues with my steering. The car is a Series V with stock 13” wheels.
As mentioned, the hub assembly and spindle have been replaced on the driver side, as well as on both sides - upper/lower ball joints and tie rod ends.

The car has also been to the shop and been aligned manually, using the specs form the WSM. The same shop did the suspension parts install on the passenger side and the upper ball joint on both sides.

We have used the same shop without issue in the past on this same car and my Dad’s Tiger as well.

Here are the symptoms, as best as I can describe them:

  • A faint ‘ratcheting sound (not able to be heard over road noise at traveling speed) when turning the wheel left, seemingly coming from the steering column behind the dash.
  • When traveling at low speeds in a straight line, no noticeable issue but when hitting third gear type speeds, the car begins to drive like a boat (best way I know to put it), as the steering has play and the car will arbitrarily pull significantly left.
  • When hitting any imperfection in the road, i.e. a bump, the car jumps left and when correcting, there is an inch or two of travel before the steering responds.
  • When making a right hander, the car seems to push to the left (almost feels like a centrifugal force push at high speed).
  • When braking (and this may be a secondary problem) the car pulls left.
  • On the pulling to the left (not including the braking) it’s not an out of alignment type feel but more like a blowout on that side, just not that severe...I guess I’m saying it’s a pull/jump and not a drift.
The car drove perfectly before the bearing failure. On the day that happened, when the bearing failed, I experienced essentially the same symptoms listed above when getting the car to a safe place to pull off of the road. As I’m typing this, I’m beginning to wonder if there was a failure of another part that led to the bearing failure, as there wasn’t the normal ‘roaring’ or grinding sound leading up to a bearing issue. The only thing I heard was a sound like a knife scratching on a plate a few times.

From my own research, I feel like there is something going on with the idler arm or bushings, as a problem that Bill Blue described once on the forum had a similar ‘ring’ to it as what I have going on now but that’s just a guess.

My other thought is, as I mentioned above, something was damaged/failed leading up to or during the bearing failure.

I apologize for such a long post but I wanted to try and be as descriptive as I could. If you think I left out information that would help, ask and I will try and answer. I’m losing the driving season here in Georgia, as my little car sits and waits for me to figure it out...

As always, any guidance would be much appreciated.
 

Toyanvil

Gold Level Sponsor
I would jack up the front so both wheels off the ground, and turn it full left to full right looking at the center tie rod bushing and idler arm, and also try it on the ground. The bushing in the center tie may be bad or the idler arm bushing or grease. But I think the alignment is not right.
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
Did you put new bushings in the drag link? There was an issue with previous repro bushes where they didnt have the honing marks on them to allow lubrication to do its job and they bind up intermittently...
 

Silver Creek Sunbeam

Gold Level Sponsor
I would jack up the front so both wheels off the ground, and turn it full left to full right looking at the center tie rod bushing and idler arm, and also try it on the ground. The bushing in the center tie may be bad or the idler arm bushing or grease. But I think the alignment is not right.
We actually had it aligned twice. In the beginning, we only rebuilt the driver side. Upon driving it, it had the symptoms mentioned above, so we had the alignment shop rebuild the passenger side (parts from SS) and align it again, thinking that one newly rebuilt side and one non-rebuilt side could have caused the issue but that was not it. Once both sides were rebuilt (ball joints and tie rod ends), nothing changed.

I think you’re on it though and that the issue is going to be with the idler arm and possibly also the steering column.
 

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
The Series Alpine steering system has an oddball steering box (worm-and-fork rather than worm-and- sector), a "steering relay lever assembly" that can develop slop and six tie-rod ends connecting two "track rods" and a "centre cross tube". The bottom line is that there are a LOT of things that can wear out or get out of adjustment and cause problems.

From WSM-145:

DIAGNOSIS OF STEERING FAULTS

Steering faults can arise from causes other than incorrect front suspension angles and steering alignment or accident damage. The more common causes of bad steering are as follows:

1. Lack of lubricant in steering unit.
2. Incorrectly adjusted steering unit.
3. Loose steering unit or relay lever assembly.
4. Wear in steering linkage.
5. Under-inflated tyres.
6. Unequally worn tyres.
7. Tyres of different tread pattern.
8. Road wheels out of balance.
9. Incorrect endfloat setting in front hubs.
10. Faulty shock absorbers.
11. Defective road springs.
12. Mis-alignment of rear axle.
 

Silver Creek Sunbeam

Gold Level Sponsor
The Series Alpine steering system has an oddball steering box (worm-and-fork rather than worm-and- sector), a "steering relay lever assembly" that can develop slop and six tie-rod ends connecting two "track rods" and a "centre cross tube". The bottom line is that there are a LOT of things that can wear out or get out of adjustment and cause problems.

From WSM-145:

DIAGNOSIS OF STEERING FAULTS

Steering faults can arise from causes other than incorrect front suspension angles and steering alignment or accident damage. The more common causes of bad steering are as follows:

1. Lack of lubricant in steering unit.
2. Incorrectly adjusted steering unit.
3. Loose steering unit or relay lever assembly.
4. Wear in steering linkage.
5. Under-inflated tyres.
6. Unequally worn tyres.
7. Tyres of different tread pattern.
8. Road wheels out of balance.
9. Incorrect endfloat setting in front hubs.
10. Faulty shock absorbers.
11. Defective road springs.
12. Mis-alignment of rear axle.

Thanks for the reply...I saw that in the WSM (if mine wasn't digital, it would be worn out by now) and most of those are eliminated.
The tires have less than 500 miles on them and most of the others have been checked/replaced.

I have not addressed anything with #10, 11, or #12 but there was no issue with in those areas before the bearing failure (although I could use new front shocks). I suspect something to do with #3 or #4 is going to be the culprit.

As I mentioned above, the more I reflect back...the more I realize how much force I had to put on the steering wheel to keep the car straight and in my lane and not left and into the oncoming traffic lane (or car beside me depending on the point in time). I'm no weakling and it took a lot of what I had in me to do that AND it went on for a little ways before there was a place to get the car safely off of the road. There was a LOT of torque from me to the right while everything in the car was trying to torque to the left. I would just about bet that something got damaged in the steering box/idler arm/bushings area, if not the column itself, because of parts having to take force in amounts and directions they were not designed to take.

I'm still at the drawing board...
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Todd, I think the extreme "pull" to the left that you felt when trying to pull over during the bearing failure was simply due to the bearing issue and not related to your present issue. The bearing failure could put a lot of bind on the left wheel, acting very much like a sticking brake on the left wheel and cause the car to pull left.

You issue sounds to me like a problem in the steering box.
 

Silver Creek Sunbeam

Gold Level Sponsor
Todd, I think the extreme "pull" to the left that you felt when trying to pull over during the bearing failure was simply due to the bearing issue and not related to your present issue. The bearing failure could put a lot of bind on the left wheel, acting very much like a sticking brake on the left wheel and cause the car to pull left.

You issue sounds to me like a problem in the steering box.

That’s what I’m thinking. I know the pull during the incident was due to the bearing failure and I think the steering issue now, as you said, is the steering box/idler arm section and was probably caused by what I had to do the the car to drive it with the broken bearing.

You’re also right about the feeling during the incident...at first, I thought I’d broken a caliper and it had stuck.
 

Toyanvil

Gold Level Sponsor
I still think your alignment is the problem, toe is off. But, if your center tie rod bushings are bad it will change the toe over every bump.
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
I still think your alignment is the problem, toe is off. But, if your center tie rod bushings are bad it will change the toe over every bump

Hard to believe it would be a tie rod (or any) bushing as you'd expect the alignment shop would have noticed that while trying to do an alignment. But I think they could miss a poorly lubricated or near-failing steering box,
 

Silver Creek Sunbeam

Gold Level Sponsor
I still think your alignment is the problem, toe is off. But, if your center tie rod bushings are bad it will change the toe over every bump.

Could be...it will be going back to the shop after we do whatever we do next, so the alignment will be checked again.

He's aligned it twice and re-checked it after the second time and said it was dead on but it is a Sunbeam, so strange things do happen. LOL

One other thing he mentioned that I just remembered and this may be a big clue to someone who understands the steering/suspension more than me...the alignment guy said that when he drove it to test it that part of the time when going straight the center of the steering wheel 'arms' from the horn ring would be as they should be at 3 and 9 but then part of the time they had to be at 11 and 4 for the car to go straight and this interchanged more than just once.

When I drove it, which wasn't far, I remember it to be normal as far as orientation (however, the pulling and jumping were at the forefront of my mind) and when going straight on a flat surface at slow speed...it held a straight line.

Does the new clue tell you anything definitive?
 

Toyanvil

Gold Level Sponsor
I would have someone watch the ends of the center tie rod while someone shakes the steering wheel left and right. I think the bushing are hard and are falling out, and now has play. If so the passenger wheel has movement with out steering input. My bushing did this and my car wander around, I swapped mine out for one with ball joints and grease fitting, made a big difference.
RIMG0594-XL.jpg
 

Silver Creek Sunbeam

Gold Level Sponsor
I would have someone watch the ends of the center tie rod while someone shakes the steering wheel left and right. I think the bushing are hard and are falling out, and now has play. If so the passenger wheel has movement with out steering input. My bushing did this and my car wander around, I swapped mine out for one with ball joints and grease fitting, made a big difference.

Where did you source your center tie rod?

I know that Sunbeam Spares out of the UK sells that older (better) style that you're talking about. Do you know of anyone selling it in the U.S.?
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
I'm not sure how much confidence I would have in an alignment guy who said he had the alignment dead on, but also said the alignment seems to shift while on a road test.
 

Silver Creek Sunbeam

Gold Level Sponsor
I'm not sure how much confidence I would have in an alignment guy who said he had the alignment dead on, but also said the alignment seems to shift while on a road test.

I believe he was just referring to having set it to the specs in the WSM and then re-checking to those specs.
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
I believe he was just referring to having set it to the specs in the WSM and then re-checking to those specs.
Of course. But as I said, I would have low confidence in a shop that simply set the alignment to spec, took the test drive as he should, and then not investigate further as to why the test drive went so poorly. The test drive clearly told him that the car did not hold alignment while on the road, regardless of how the specs looked in a static test. Yes, he did what you asked and was paid for it. But, again, I'd have low confidence in him. It was good that he told you something was still wrong in the car, but left it to you to figure out what. It would appear he did not have much knowledge about suspension systems.
 

RootesRooter

Donation Time
Were the new ball joints installed at the same time as the bearings?

If so, were the new ball joints and tie-rod ends lubed? One dry ball joint can cause heavy and unexpected steering.

Were the upper ball joints installed correctly with the slots pointed outward?

I don't see a reply where you confirmed you have checked the oil in the steering box. ???
 
Last edited:

Silver Creek Sunbeam

Gold Level Sponsor
Were the new ball joints installed at the same time as the bearings?

If so, were the new ball joints and tie-rod ends lubed? One dry ball joint can cause heavy and unexpected steering.

Were the upper ball joints installed correctly with the slots pointed outward?

I don't see a reply where you confirmed you have checked the oil in the steering box. ???

I haven’t seen the car since your last post. It’s in the shop that I store and work on it in about thirty minutes from me. I work, so I haven’t had an opportunity to take a look.
I do know everything was lubed but I will have to confirm the upper ball joint installation. My guess would be that they are correct because I’m only having an issue on one side of the car but I can’t know for sure until I see it.
 
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