Steering Box - Your Experience?

[loose_electron]

Got a Series 2 1963 Alpine with a slow drip coming out of the bottom of the steering box.

The steering is pretty tight, I don't think the box is in need of rebuild.

On the Sunbeam Specialties site, part FS75A is an O-Ring that seals the box around the control shaft exiting the steering box.

In the experience of other who have dealt with a leaky steering box, is the R&R of that seal generally sufficient to solve this problem?

Also, from what I can tell, to get this off would be dropping the tie rods off and the arm (Pitman arm if I recall correctly) should be able to be yanked and the seal replaced without taking the steering box out.

(Will go look at the shop manuals as well.)

Any knowledge to share?

Thanks
Jerry

 

[65beam]

box

It's normal for them to leak after all these years. Tough to remove the arm and may not cure the leak. Most pack the box with a good EP 2 grease instead of oil and keep check on it. FYI, grease is oil with a thickener added to retain the lube oil instead of the oil draining off.

 

[loose_electron]

It's normal for them to leak after all these years. Tough to remove the arm and may not cure the leak. Most pack the box with a good EP 2 grease instead of oil and keep check on it. FYI, grease is oil with a thickener added to retain the lube oil instead of the oil draining off.

Clever way to walk around the problem. Need something that does not wipe or channel.

Any specific "EP 2" products you would suggest?

Looking around this seems to be a possibility:

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/categories/veteran-vintage-classic/steering-box-lube

Essentially 1200 weight oil which is pretty close to being grease.

Any thoughts on getting the old oil out? I suspect it is 90W gear oil as was originally specified for the car, and probably a suction oil pump in from the top would mostly get it done.

 

[phyrman]

The O Ring is a number 118 which you may get at a local hardware store (if you have a real one) just an FYI

 

[loose_electron]

The O Ring is a number 118 which you may get at a local hardware store (if you have a real one) just an FYI

Thanks, I probably have it in one of my O-Ring kits but I got an order into SS for it as well.

Guessing you have done this yourself. Any insight?

 

[65beam]

box

Clever way to walk around the problem. Need something that does not wipe or channel.

Any specific "EP 2" products you would suggest?

Looking around this seems to be a possibility:

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/categories/veteran-vintage-classic/steering-box-lube

Essentially 1200 weight oil which is pretty close to being grease.

Any thoughts on getting the old oil out? I suspect it is 90W gear oil as was originally specified for the car, and probably a suction oil pump in from the top would mostly get it done.

Been using grease in the boxes since the 60's. They leaked way back then. Of course I was in my teens then and had no money nor the time to get it repaired . Do you know what an EP 2 grease is? Many EP2 greases have a base oil with a viscosity of 220 which is the equivalent to an SAE 90 gear oil. They also have a thickener called a "soap" to retain the lube oil. I use just about any grease I happen to have if it's an EP2. The Penrite Oil is just that. An oil . It would be good if you didn't have a leak. We use a lot of 00 grease in industrial applications for bearings, etc. Being a 00 grease makes it a semi fluid product and would allow it to run out of the gear box just like an SAE 30. As Nick used to say; there is no such thing as an oil ' weight". A 1200 would be a solid product and be unusable in anything. As far as getting the old oil out I would say if it's leaking it wouldn't take long to empty itself.

 

[pruyter]

Hi Jerry,

Some months ago I did this job regarding the Alpine of my brothers.
What I did is this;
Remove the complete steeringbox out of the car. This involves also removing the steering wheel. Next job and not easy at all was removing the pitman arm. After that it was easy and the job took exactly haf an hour. Remove the cover of the steering box and pry out the old rubber ring. I put in a new one and smeared it with blue siliconen gasket. Next job is put back the cover again and on top of the new rubber ring I put another rubber ring (outside of the box) and smeared this rubber ring with blue siliconen gasket.
After the steering box was on it place in the car I filled the box with EP 140.
Up to now no leaks at all and my brother is in heaven, he even told me that by doing this job an iritating noise from the steering box which occured every time when he steered to the far left is disappeared.
I myself was amazed how easy it was to replace the rubber sealing. I experienced the most trouble with removing the pitman arm and after that the steering wheel.

Regards,

Peter

 

[loose_electron]

Taking the steering box out and rebuilding it might be the path of unlimited time and resources.

For the moment, the plan is to suck as much of the 90W oil out and then pack-pump as much EP2 Lithium Grease in there as can be done.

 

[65beam]

box

You may still have some oil leaks if you use the grease. Some oil will separate out of the thickener but it should not be anywhere near as bad as using oil only.

 

[DanR]

Peter, What do you mean by "cover" ?

Your words are as: Quote: Remove the "cover" of the steering box and pry out the old rubber ring. I put in a new one and smeared it with blue siliconen gasket. Next job is put back the "cover" again and on top of the new rubber ring .....Unquote.

DanR

P.S. I am rebuilding a couple of the steering boxes, just do understand your reference to the "cover".. Thanks!

 

[greenbeam]

Peter, thanks for the description of what you did. It will help others in future. What did you finally do to remove the pitman arm? That seems to be the big problem with this job, so it would be good to know what worked for you.
Best regards,
Paul.

 

[pruyter]

Hi all,

by cover I mean the top cover which is shown in the parts list 6600992 in Section RA with number 30 (parts number for a LHD car is K.29832).
The pitman arm was removed by numerous small little ticks with a hammer while holding a bigger hammer at the opposite side where the ticks were placed.

To be honest the trick with both the rubber rings and the silicone gasket is the idea of Englishman Tim R. who is posting on this forum too. Tim had earlier his steering box overhauled by a so called expert, but the result was a disaster still a leaking steering box. I have tried to get the pitman arm off while the steering box was still in the car, but whatever I tried it was all to no avail, so in the end I decided to take the steering box out.

 

[DanR]

Pitman Arm Removal

Thanks, Peter for that explanation....The way I was reading your post it seemed as if you were removing the rubber O ring from the bottom and replacing.

As for the Pitman Arm removal... I just did one.

I recently bought a used complete steering column assy. It was removed from an Alpine SV that was being scraped due to excessive rust.

The removal expert (s) used a torch to cut the ends of the Pitman Arm off, making it worthless.

In an attempt for it removal, I tried a couple different pullers to no avail.

Finally, with the "nut" backed off, a pulley putting pressure, I used a welding torch to lightly heat the Arm around the farthest point of the arm and nut. Only a minute and a strike with a hammer and it popped lose

Next, I cooled and cleaned for replacement of the oil seal (O-ring).

Peter's idea of using the hammers is a grand idea and usually works! In this (my) case, No! Any better ideas? I'm open.

DanR

P.S. Just remember the steering box housing is aluminum

 

[loose_electron]

Finally, with the "nut" backed off, a pulley putting pressure, I used a welding torch to lightly heat the Arm around the farthest point of the arm and nut. Only a minute and a strike with a hammer and it popped lose

Things put together with tapered shafts and left to corrode for many years don't come apart easily.

With other things, I am a big fan of selective use of heat and either gear puller tools or (if it can be fitted to the problem) hydraulic press methods.

Never been a big fan of banging on things with a hammer until something gives.

If the steering box is out of the car some form of bench jig to press them apart is probably a good idea. For my situation I will go the grease in place method.

Even if you do have the luxury of rebuilding the steering box, I would not go back to 90W gear oil, the design is going to leak again just due to the way that the seal is implemented. (Reality check here - there are lots of design issues that can be improved on in the car.)

If I ever have the steering box out for a rebuild, I think I will install a grease nipple in the top cover plate, and drill a small breather hole in the fill nut-plate. That way, you could use a grease gun to pressure pump it full, totally get the air out and top off until it came out the breather hole.

When re-installed the grease nipple would be accessible under the hood (er... bonnet! ) and should be easily maintained.

My 2 cents...

 

[DanR]

Jerry, the idea of a grease nipple sounds good, especially for the heavy grease 65beam recommends.

DanR