• Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

Starting Issue: No spark at all

BritsUpNorth

Silver Level Sponsor
Hello,

Ran into a weird issue this afternoon while working on my Alpine. The car is a bit of a basket case and I'm currently sorting out the electrical system - today's project: the tachometer. I got the tach working, albeit is works backwards . . . but that is another issue I'll have to deal with. More importantly, the car went from starting several times with no issues to suddenly having no spark at the plugs. I did the obvious checks for faults at the tach - which is now completely disconnected - and found nothing out of the ordinary. I then changed out the coil (twice) and had the same problem. Power to the coil is 0 volts when off and 12 volts with power. The wires running off the distributor show continuity, and the positive wire running to the dizzy show 0 volts with power off and 12 volts with power on. Any thoughts as to what the issue could possibly be? It's probably something stupidly obvious, but nothing comes to my mind . . .

Thanks in advance,

Ed
 
Last edited:

MikeH

Diamond Level Sponsor
I assume “with power” is with the ignition in the run position. Is there voltage when in the start position?
 

BritsUpNorth

Silver Level Sponsor
Hello again,

To answer the questions posed:

The wiring harness is aftermarket, and is still a work in progress behind the dash.

"With power" does indeed mean in the run position. Didn't check the voltage while cranking . . . D'oh!

Best,

Ed
 
Last edited:

hartmandm

Moderator
Diamond Level Sponsor
What series car do you have?

You mentioned the tach is working backwards. Can you explain what that means?

You mentioned "both the positive and negative wires running to the dizzy show 0 volts with power off and 12 volts with power off". Assume you meant power "on" and likely there is only one wire running from the ignition coil to the distributor.

Mike
 
Last edited:

nsbluenose

Silver Level Sponsor
Rotor arm! Seems too simple for anything to go wrong but they can go bad, especially ones with a rivet thru the the brass arm. The electrical current burns a hole thru the black casing and goes to ground, don't bother looking, it is so small of a hole you probably can't see it.
 

ernestovumbles

Gold Level Sponsor
"Rotor arm! Seems too simple for anything to go wrong but they can go bad, especially ones with a rivet thru the the brass arm. The electrical current burns a hole thru the black casing and goes to ground, don't bother looking, it is so small of a hole you probably can't see it."

I had that happen last year.. not fun. I had a hairline crack that was difficult to see.


50261061231_8aff58aaa0_b.jpg
 

mikephillips

Donation Time
You should also try swapping out the condenser in the distributor. They have a small paper insulator in them that if a hole develops can ground the ignition and you'll get no spark. I always carry a couple spares and extra points just in case. And if you have the resistor in the wiring to the distributor, bypass it for a bit to see if it is bad, if it runs then you'll need to replace that.
 

BritsUpNorth

Silver Level Sponsor
Hello,

The car is a 1966 SV.

The tach was sitting at 2000rpm at idle and then dropping to zero when throttle was applied.

And, I corrected my typos above to prevent further confusion.

Best,

Ed


What series car do you have?

You mentioned the tach is working backwards. Can you explain what that means?

You mentioned "both the positive and negative wires running to the dizzy show 0 volts with power off and 12 volts with power off". Assume you meant power "on" and likely there is only one wire running from the ignition coil to the distributor.

Mike
 

BritsUpNorth

Silver Level Sponsor
Hello,

The rotor arm is the uprated red type, but may indeed be at fault. I should have an extra one lying around . . .

Also, I've got a Pertronix ignition system installed.

Best,

Ed

Rotor arm! Seems too simple for anything to go wrong but they can go bad, especially ones with a rivet thru the the brass arm. The electrical current burns a hole thru the black casing and goes to ground, don't bother looking, it is so small of a hole you probably can't see it.
 
Last edited:

BEpine

Platinum Level Sponsor
If you hooked up the Pertronix ignition backwards on the coil + or - terminal, it will instantly fail and you would have no spark.
 

Shannon Boal

Platinum Level Sponsor
"The tach was sitting at 2000rpm at idle and then dropping to zero when throttle was applied."

When applying throttle, vacuum advance should move the points mounting plate. The tach seemed, at that moment, to have lost the ignition signal.....
The pertronix MAY be losing continuity in power, ground, or this signal; caused by movement. Can you wiggle stuff? Pull and inspect distributor? If it starts working gain, unhook the vacuum advance....
Have you got a dwell meter?
 

BritsUpNorth

Silver Level Sponsor
Went through the ignition system again today with a test light and voltmeter. Once again there is power up to the ignition coil (new out of the box) and that's it. No spark at the plugs. My suspicion is that the distributor might have given up the ghost.

I'm not familiar with distributors, so I need to get a mechanic friend to take a look at it next week to make sure. Unless of course someone here has an easy way to diagnose it.

I'm afraid my knowledge of vacuum advance is equally bad . . .

Best,

Ed

"The tach was sitting at 2000rpm at idle and then dropping to zero when throttle was applied."

When applying throttle, vacuum advance should move the points mounting plate. The tach seemed, at that moment, to have lost the ignition signal.....
The pertronix MAY be losing continuity in power, ground, or this signal; caused by movement. Can you wiggle stuff? Pull and inspect distributor? If it starts working gain, unhook the vacuum advance....
Have you got a dwell meter?
 

loose_electron

Donation Time
Sounds to me like the points, or the electronic equivalent are not opening.

Check for spark at the output of the coil to the distributor. (coil wire to ground same as when you test at a plug wire. )

If that's no spark, check to see if distributor is rotating. (distributor cap off, crank and see rotor rotate.) which controls the open-close of your points (or electronic equivalent)
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
nd the positive wire running to the dizzy show 0 volts with power off and 12 volts with power on.


Very simple thing to check before you pull anything. .You say that with power ON it shows 12 V. Just connect a test light to that post on the coil where that wire to the dizzy connects. Then crank the engine and you should see that light blink on and off. If it does not then there is a problem with your pertronix. Maybe the red (?) power wire to the Pertronix is not connected, or maybe the Pertronix is blown. The Pertronox, , just like points, is supposed to connect that side of the coil to ground and then disconnect that ground path to make the coil produce the spark voltage each time as the crank turns. If you just test that point without the engine cranking you would see it either 12 V or 0 volts depending on where the crank position is at that moment.
 

Pete S.

Bronze Level Sponsor
Went through the ignition system again today with a test light and voltmeter. Once again there is power up to the ignition coil (new out of the box) and that's it. No spark at the plugs. My suspicion is that the distributor might have given up the ghost.

I'm not familiar with distributors, so I need to get a mechanic friend to take a look at it next week to make sure. Unless of course someone here has an easy way to diagnose it.

I'm afraid my knowledge of vacuum advance is equally bad . . .

Best,

Ed

Are you certain the coil is working? Just because it's new doesn't mean it works. Do you have a known good coil you could test with?
 
Last edited:

BritsUpNorth

Silver Level Sponsor
Hello all,

I have an interim update. I conferred with my mechanic friend and we figure that the problem lies either with the Pertronix unit or the pick up coil in the distributor. I've taken the liberty of ordering a new dizzy w/ electronic ignition from the UK and am currently awaiting it's arrival. Hopefully, this will provide the fix.

Best,

Ed
 
Top