Starter motor issue

[Acollin]

1966 series V stock set up.

A few times now , my starter has failed to engage-- no sound-- no cranking--nothing when turning the key . The solution has always been to reach in under the hood and push that wonderfully convenient button on the selinoid switch. It has always fired right off with the push of a button.

Is this a sign my starter needs service or replacement?

Please advise.
Thanks
Andrew

 

[Greggers]

Your problem sounds very much like my problem. It turned out to be a loose wire from the ignition switch where it connects to the starter solenoid. I can't remember if I cleaned up the connection, tightened the connector or replaced the connector. But I haven't had the problem since.

I suppose there's an even chance that the issue is with your ignition switch itself. But given that the starter motor works when the switch is taken out of the equation, it's more likely one of the other components in the starting sequence.

 

[Tom H]

From your description , it's either the solenoid or the ignition switch. Certainly not the starter. Most likely it's the solenoid. OR , it might be just the ground on the solenoid. I have had similar problems, first it was simply the mounting screws holding the solenoid to the chassis - too loose and thus a bad ground. Later the problem occurred again and it turned out to be a bad solder joint where the spade lug (for the wire from the ignition switch) is soldered to the wire inside the solenoid.

Tom

 

[Acollin]

So my guess that it can't be the selinoid because it works when I push the button is totally wrong.
Are you saying that it might be the selinoid or grounding of the selinoid because the button on the selinoid does get my car started?

I don't understand how my problem can be the ignition switch because when I push the button on the selinoid the key is in the start position -- hadn't moved the key since the no start.

I did give the heavy cable to the starter a tightening today. And noticed that the cylindrical started cover rotated some. Could this be an indication of an issue?

Thanks for the help. I will go about cleaning wire connecters and ground and hope for improvement. Any more ideas, lease send them along.

Andrew

 

[Tom H]

It's not the starter because when you manually activate the solenoid closing the contacts by your finger pressure, the starter runs.

But when you turn the ignition switch to the START position it is supposed to send 12 V power from the ignition switch via the red/ white wire which is supposed to cause current to flow thru the magnetic coil inside the solenoid which closes the contacts by magnetic force instead of finger pressure. Since turning he key does not cause the starter to turn , the problem can be:

1) the ignition switch does not send power to the start terminal
2) the coil inside the solenoid is bad (open)
3) the connection to the solenoid coil is defective (bad solder joint)
4) the ground connection on the solenoid is not good, preventing current from flowing thru the solenoid coil.

You say the key is still in the START position when you are pushing the solenoid manually. How do you do that? Long arms? When you let go of the key the switch should revert back to RUN position.

Regardless, it is clear that the solenoid contacts only work when pushed by finger pressure but not by electric / magnetic action

HTH

Tom

 

[Acollin]

Thanks Tom

Great information and plenty for me to consider.

I grew up in Ohio, East Side-- Nice to know that Ohioans are still so helpful!!!!

Be well
Andrew

 

[Tom H]

East side of Cleveland? Like where?

me: 4717 Hough Ave

 

[Greggers]

me: Tallmadge (very, very southeast side, like Akron-ish)

(Then Columbus, Westerville, Mansfield and Lakewood)

 

[PETER CLAYTON]

Andrew, testing your circuit. Either use a multimeter or a make up a test lead with a bulb .
Remove energizer wire connection to solenoid (small one) and connect to test lead/meter and then to earth/ground. Place so that it can be seen from driving seat,switch ignition to start position bulb should light/ meter on volts should show battery volts. If no light , switch or wiring from it is at fault.
Make up a length of wire to reach from known live point to solenoid energizer terminal (the small one ) unplug original wire, connect your "fly" lead in its place , touch other end of this lead to your designated live point, the starter solenoid should pull in and operate the starter. If not clicking the solenoid is faulty. Make sure at all times that nothing can be caught in the cooling fan,and I would recommend unplugging the coil to prevent engine from firing whilst under test. Hope this helps , if you don't understand anything ask me and I will try to explain. Peter.

 

[Acollin]

Thanks for all the help!

Peter: when you say "small" one which do you mean? I gave it a look and there seems to be a load of wires connected to my selinoid. R/w, a heavy lead to starter, a heavier one that appears to go to the harness and some not as easy to identify by color or size.

Tom/ Greggers: Cleveland Heights, Ohio. It has been a long time since I lived there. Born at St Luke's -- Fairfax Elementary through John Carroll University.

 

[Tom H]

Andrew, Connected to the solenoid on an SV is
1) heavy wire- input from Battery
2) Heavy wire - output to starter
3) Red/wht wire. This is the 12 V from the Ignition switch only while in Start position ( momentary on Ign Switch)
4) Several brown wires connected to a large "blade" on the same post as #1 above, direct connection to the battery. Assuming you have no ammeter, one of these brown wires goes to the fuseholder, one goes to the Alternator output, and one goes to the Alternator Relay.
5) on most SVs there is also a Wht/ Grn wire at an additional small terminal. This is a wire to bypass the ballast resistor (ceramic block) near the coil, during starting (whenever the solenoid is engaged)

Peter's suggestion is a good one: Just pull the Red / Wht wire from the solenoid and connect it to a test lamp. Ground the free end of the test lamp and turn the key to Start position. Test Lamp should light. If so the Ign switch is good and red/wht wire is good. If good then next step:

Next (Be sure tranny is in Neutral) just connect a short wire from the solenoid post (#1 above) (any exposed area of the brown wires at the solenoid). Touch the other end to the same terminal where you have removed the red/wht wire. Solenoid should click loudly and starter should crank. If not look for loose mounting screw attaching solenoid to chassis. Either way, wiggle the connector on the solenoid where the red/wht wire had been connected and see if it is loose. If loose, it will cause intermittent results.

I see - JCU class of 77. Young guy! I am JCU '64, BS, Physics / Electronics. Glad to help.

Tom Hayden

 

[PETER CLAYTON]

Andrew, a bit late getting back to you as have been out all day working on a 1951 Daimler SS. which has been off the road for over 40 years. Glad to see Tom has clarified the small connector as the white/red. His description as to checking the circuit is spot on. The only addition I would say is that if the solenoid does click and the starter still doesn't operate it could be slack nuts on the main large brown terminals.

 

[Acollin]

Thanks again all.

I plan to get on it tomorrow.

Tom: I'm a bit older than my JCU data would suggest (65)-- just didn't become a Blue Streak right out of high school. I do,however, doff my duffer to seniority.

Be well all. Will post what I find.
Andrew