Start Solenoid Ticking/Shorting Sound

[fastfrontier17]

Hey guys,

I went to start my series II this past weekend, and the solenoid kind of just ticked and hissed out me. I popped the hood and pushed the button the solenoid and the engine kicked over and started. I let the engine flood out, and then I tried the key again and it worked! A few hours later when I went to try again I got the same ticking/hissing sounds, but the button didn't do jack this time. I tried crossing the two lugs with a screwdriver as well, and nothing. I made sure all the connections were clean, fiddled with the red/white wire and now I'm wondering if I need to replace the solenoid.

 

[puff4]

You’ve got either a dead battery, poor connections on your battery or a bad main ground strap.

 

[fastfrontier17]

You’ve got either a dead battery, poor connections on your battery or a bad main ground strap.

The battery is 1 year old and was topped off with a trickle charger up until I went to start it. I will check the grounds. I'll check the grounds. Thanks!

 

[fastfrontier17]

Just thought of something else. The horn has been very weak, even with the new battery. Perhaps the ground issue could be effecting that as well.

 

[puff4]

Horns take a fair bit of power to work, so, yes, they would also show poor grounds, supply or battery condition.

I would still check that battery condition with a voltmeter.

 

[Tom H]

Do you know for a fact that you have the ground strap by the tranny rear bracket or some other ground strap or cable that provides solid heavy ground from engine/tranny to chassis.

 

[fastfrontier17]

Do you know for a fact that you have the ground strap by the tranny rear bracket or some other ground strap or cable that provides solid heavy ground from engine/tranny to chassis.

Braided metal strap from trans to body. 12.6 volts from battery. Drops to about 12.5 volts when turning the key. Still clicking/buzzing sound from solenoid. Button on solenoid still not functioning.

 

[husky drvr]

Braided metal strap from trans to body. 12.6 volts from battery. Drops to about 12.5 volts when turning the key. Still clicking/buzzing sound from solenoid. Button on solenoid still not functioning.

I tried crossing the two lugs with a screwdriver as well, and nothing.

fastfrontier17,

Two suggestions:

First is your battery at 12.6 V would not be considered fully charged - should be about 1 V higher. Your battery, even at 12.6 should be OK to start your engine ( a Rootes four cylinder any way). At the moment, battery volts is probably not your big problem but I suggest pulling both cables off the battery and using a terminal cleaning tool to clean both the terminals and connectors to clean metal, reinstall and tighten both connectors, and recharge the battery with a regular charger.

Second, when you shorted the solenoid battery terminals and nothing happened, that would seem to point to the starter as the issue. When the starters get some age on them, if the commutator is rough and the brushes are worn, the springs and brushes don't maintain solid contact. To test, try to use a small broom handle and use it to reach under the manifolds and tap on the middle of the starter housing. If the engine now starts, keep the stick in the car because it will happen again until you can deal with the starter. If it didn't start, then try using a wrench to turn the exposed shaft end at the front of the starter. Mainly for a different issue, though.

Still might be another problem.

Hope this helps,

 

[Tom H]

When you measured the battery voltage , did you measure it right at the battery posts, that is each probe touching the top of the posts? Or did you measure on the cable clamps. And you say it drops about 0.1 V when you turn on the key. Just turning on the ignition is not much load on the battery, but if you have a dirty connection at one of the battery terminals it will lose a lot of voltage when the starter current starts flowing. One quick test for dirty connections at the battery is to try cranking the starter a bit and then feel if one or both of the battery terminal clamps gets warm. Sure sign of a bad connection.

 

[fastfrontier17]

When you measured the battery voltage , did you measure it right at the battery posts, that is each probe touching the top of the posts? Or did you measure on the cable clamps. And you say it drops about 0.1 V when you turn on the key. Just turning on the ignition is not much load on the battery, but if you have a dirty connection at one of the battery terminals it will lose a lot of voltage when the starter current starts flowing. One quick test for dirty connections at the battery is to try cranking the starter a bit and then feel if one or both of the battery terminal clamps gets warm. Sure sign of a bad connection.

I measured at the battery terminals. The .1V drops was after turning the key, attempting to start the car. Since the solenoid just kinda clicks and hisses at me I'm guessing this would explain why there's not much of a voltage drop.

 

[fastfrontier17]

fastfrontier17,

Two suggestions:

First is your battery at 12.6 V would not be considered fully charged - should be about 1 V higher. Your battery, even at 12.6 should be OK to start your engine ( a Rootes four cylinder any way). At the moment, battery volts is probably not your big problem but I suggest pulling both cables off the battery and using a terminal cleaning tool to clean both the terminals and connectors to clean metal, reinstall and tighten both connectors, and recharge the battery with a regular charger.

Second, when you shorted the solenoid battery terminals and nothing happened, that would seem to point to the starter as the issue. When the starters get some age on them, if the commutator is rough and the brushes are worn, the springs and brushes don't maintain solid contact. To test, try to use a small broom handle and use it to reach under the manifolds and tap on the middle of the starter housing. If the engine now starts, keep the stick in the car because it will happen again until you can deal with the starter. If it didn't start, then try using a wrench to turn the exposed shaft end at the front of the starter. Mainly for a different issue, though.

Still might be another problem.

Hope this helps,

When the button on the solenoid did work the time I tried it this weekend the starter did seem pretty healthy, but that doesn't necessarily mean its not the issue. My main concern would be why one the button on the solenoid work and then hours later not work?

 

[husky drvr]

When the button on the solenoid did work the time I tried it this weekend the starter did seem pretty healthy, but that doesn't necessarily mean its not the issue. My main concern would be why one the button on the solenoid work and then hours later not work?

When you shorted the solenoid battery terminals, you completely bypassed the ignition switch and solenoid contacts, effectively straight wiring the battery to starter circuit. You should have experienced sparks, a large current flow, and the starter operating. When the starter is operating, it's almost like a short to the battery circuit. Battery voltage should drop several volts due to the high current flow. If you think the solenoid contacts aren't working, then use your meter or test light connected between the solenoid/starter terminal and ground and test its operation in that manner. Because you are experiencing no current flow or starter operation with the solenoid battery terminals shorted, your problem is almost certainly the starter. Just think of this as trying to turn on a burned out light bulb = no matter how many times the switch is flipped, the light bulb is the issue, not the switch.

HTH

 

[Tom H]

Like HTH says, If you made good contacts with the battery terminals on the solenoid and starter did nothing, and you have a good ground strap, it sure looks like a bad starter. There is probably a bad commutator segment in it which would explain the sometimes works and sometimes not. Just takes a slight rotation of a couple degrees to get past the bad segment. You can buy a rebuilt starter at a local Auto Zone, Advance, or NAPA. Ask for a starter for a 67 MG Midget. They usually don't list parts for Sunbeams.

Tom

 

[fastfrontier17]

When you shorted the solenoid battery terminals, you completely bypassed the ignition switch and solenoid contacts, effectively straight wiring the battery to starter circuit. You should have experienced sparks, a large current flow, and the starter operating. When the starter is operating, it's almost like a short to the battery circuit. Battery voltage should drop several volts due to the high current flow. If you think the solenoid contacts aren't working, then use your meter or test light connected between the solenoid/starter terminal and ground and test its operation in that manner. Because you are experiencing no current flow or starter operation with the solenoid battery terminals shorted, your problem is almost certainly the starter. Just think of this as trying to turn on a burned out light bulb = no matter how many times the switch is flipped, the light bulb is the issue, not the switch.

HTH

Like HTH says, If you made good contacts with the battery terminals on the solenoid and starter did nothing, and you have a good ground strap, it sure looks like a bad starter. There is probably a bad commutator segment in it which would explain the sometimes works and sometimes not. Just takes a slight rotation of a couple degrees to get past the bad segment. You can buy a rebuilt starter at a local Auto Zone, Advance, or NAPA. Ask for a starter for a 67 MG Midget. They usually don't list parts for Sunbeams.

Tom

You guys make excellent points, but if the starter is the issue, shouldn't the solenoid still be engaging? I think I would be hearing a clear ticking sound from the solenoid if it was engaging, but its more of an electrical shorting sound (which brings the grounding into question again).

 

[Tom H]

You said you tried crossing the solenoid lugs with a screwdriver and got “nothing”. If you are confident that your”screwdriver test” made good contact to the large lugs on the solenoid, that connected the battery cable directly to the starter cable and if that got “nothing” the problem in not the solenoid. You bypassed the solenoid and got nothing. Is there something we are misunderstanding?

 

[fastfrontier17]

You guys make excellent points, but if the starter is the issue, shouldn't the solenoid still be engaging?

You said you tried crossing the solenoid lugs with a screwdriver and got “nothing”. If you are confident that your”screwdriver test” made good contact to the large lugs on the solenoid, that connected the battery cable directly to the starter cable and if that got “nothing” the problem in not the solenoid. You bypassed the solenoid and got nothing. Is there something we are misunderstanding?

Nope. That's clear.

 

[husky drvr]

You guys make excellent points, but if the starter is the issue, shouldn't the solenoid still be engaging? I think I would be hearing a clear ticking sound from the solenoid if it was engaging, but its more of an electrical shorting sound (which brings the grounding into question again).

The solenoid you are pressing the button on is only an electrical relay switch like Fords used in the past.

If you are thinking that the starter is supposed to make a clunk sound when you engage the solenoid switch, these starters aren't made that way. These starters engage the drive gear with inertia when the starter begins to rotate. If the starter doesn't rotate, then the drive gear never engages the ring gear on the flywheel.

 

[fastfrontier17]

Very interesting, the 1 year old battery discharged to 6.5 volts overnight. I know I don't use it a lot, but it was on a trickle charger until I put it back in the car on Saturday.

 

[puff4]

You’ve got either a dead battery, poor connections on your battery or a bad main ground strap.

 

[hartmandm]

You are focusing on the solenoid. Have you tested the solenoid as Don suggested to conclude if it is working or not? Also, you can disconnect the wire to the starter then check resistance across the solenoid connections when the ignition is in the 'start' position to verify the relay is closing. Also verify the 'start' control wire connected to the solenoid is going hot when the ignition is in the 'start' position.

A true trickle charger will trash your battery. Hopefully you actually have a battery maintainer.

Mike