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Splines are not all the same

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by Van Bagley, Aug 26, 2020.

  1. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    I just installed new splines in my SV and after driving for about 5o miles the front splines became loose. Upon removal I discovered that the spacer or washer behind the castle nut was not seeding correctly. It appears to me that the new splines do not support the washer/spacer. The splines came from MWS.

    Am I seeing this correctly?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    Van At first glance, something doesn't look right. I'll have a look at some of mine tomorrow,
     
  3. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    Thanks
    I will take better pictures as well. I was thinking of adding another washer behind the castle nut. However this seems to be a makeshift fix.
     
  4. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    Here are pics of the original and the new MWS hub. You can see that the original has a lip to help the washer in place and the new one has a much smaller ridge. Also note that the washer has been ground down. Could this be because I had the castle nut too tight?
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    Note that they both came apart at the exact same time while driving
     
  6. RootesRacer

    RootesRacer Donation Time

    when you say both become loose at the same time, makes me wonder if you swapped left for right. The direction of the threads on the knock-offs is fundamental to keeping the wheels on the car.
     
  7. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    They were correct. The wheels didn't come loose, the splines started to pull away from the spindles at the same time
     
  8. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    I need to replace the washer that goes between the wheel bearing and the castle nut. I am almost dead sure that I tightened the castle nut to much and did not back it off? Now to find new washers. Anyone know of a source?
     
  9. RootesRacer

    RootesRacer Donation Time

    OK, Perhaps some nomenclature would be handy.

    The new parts you bought are wire wheel (splined) hubs.
    The washer you show is the washer that allows the wheel bearing to be set. If it is as domed as it looks, then you were tightening against the hub and not the wheel bearing. You should not assume that the washer is correct and this washer could be oversized.
    If it is correct, then looks like you will need to modify it so it clears the inner steps in the new hub.
    You may have to modify a perfectly good part becuase OEM hubs are not available and such a mod is a small inconvenience compared to having no replacement part at all.

    HTH
     
  10. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    Picture 6720 is strange. It looks like there is no bearing race.

    You can see the notches that are normally used to knock out the bearing race??

    And the bearing race usually covers them up... ????
     
  11. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    Looking at both washers, both tabs have been ground down and the washer itself has been abused. Both sides are identical. There is metal chards and shavings in the spline. I'm now convinced that what I did was once I had the new spine bolted onto the brake disk, I over tightened the crown nut and then did not back it off. Thus when spinning, the over tight crown nut took the washer along for a ride breaking off the tab.
     
  12. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    Van, I suggest you take RootesRacer's nomenclature suggestion to heart. The part you are dealing with is called a hub. Splines are the ridges machined on the hub. Every time I read your term the "spline", it's almost as irritating as the sound of a stone on a chalkboard :rolleyes: . At first I was looking at the splines on the hubs in your photos, trying to see a difference in the actual splines on the hubs. I thought I was the only one, but I see Rootes was similarly bothered or confused.
     
  13. Gordon Holsinger

    Gordon Holsinger Diamond Level Sponsor

    Bearing end float is critical on the front end without looking at the shop manual I believe it is between 4 to 6 thousand!
     
  14. Mike O'D

    Mike O'D Gold Level Sponsor

    The workshop manual is very clear about how to set it up. I don't have it handy for exact numbers, but essentially - tighten the nut to 20 ft lbs and then back it off enough to get the cotter pin through the hole. At that point float needs to be between (small number of thousandths). If the float is not correct at that point, you would need to shim the washer to get it right. The washer shouldn't be rubbing against anything that is turning. It should be against the center of the bearing, which hopefully is not turning.
     
  15. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    Tom H and Rootes Racer...thank you and I appreciate your comments. I will be careful in the future and I promise I won't let this happen again.
    What I'm most sure I did was after I installed the large roller race into the hub along with the small roller race I tighten the castellated nut to tight.
    The washer between nut and the small race spun because as Gordon states there was not enough float. I don't think any major damage was done to the hub but the washers are toast. Now to find new washers. Then clean and reassemble correctly
     
  16. Tim R

    Tim R Silver Level Sponsor

    The WSM directs that the hub nut should be tightened to between 15 and 20 lbs ft, then backed off 1- 1.5 flats to fit the split pin through the castellations. We always torque to 20 lbs ft in stages then back off at least one flat but just enough to get a split pin through the castle nut. After being tightened to 20 lbs ft the wheel can still be turned but it will not spin freely. It is also important to use the correct size imperial split pin to lock the castle nut solidly in position, you don't want it rocking because you have used too narrow a split pin.

    Tim R
     

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