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Speedometer cable end not square with gearbox

pruyter

Donation Time
Hi all,

today I took of the speedometer cable of my Tiger in order to check why the needle of the speedometer is waving terrible. I used a drill device and after connecting that to the inner speedo cable I noticed that the waving was nearly gone away. So one should think the speedo itself must be okay.
After that I tried to fasten the cable on the gearbox again and found out that when I fasten the bold which holds the clamp that the cable itself was pulled to one side and that the end of the cable was slanted and not square with the gearbox. What ever I treid I did not get it right the cable stayed inclined when I fastened the last turn of the bolt.
So what am I doing wrong???
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Regards,

Peter
 

George Coleman

Gold Level Sponsor
Just a note the cable may need a little lube, but do not use any type of oil. Use a graphite lube. The cable should work at just about any angle as long as its not past a 180 curve. You may need to just replace the whole cable if this is the org. one? :cool:
 

pruyter

Donation Time
Hi George,

Thanks for your reaction! In the meantime I have found out how to fasten the cable in a way that the end of the cable (where it goes in the gearbox) is square with the gearbox and.....it must have been installed wrongly nearly 22 years ago when I bought this Tiger in the UK. I will not mention his name, because he is well known in Sunbeam land. The reason why I know that it must have been installed wrongly is that since this morning I have for the first time in 20 years a needle that is not waving!
The cable is not the original one, my Tiger is original sold in Texas and in the early nineties the car went back to the UK where it has been restored and converted to RHD. I bought this car in october 1995 and arranged that the Tiger was converted back to LHD again before I took it home to the Netherlands. During this restoration the speedo cable is replaced for a new one. Thanks for you advice concerning the graphite lube I will follow this advice.

Best regards,

Peter
 

pruyter

Donation Time
I still have this waving of the needle. Checking the speedometer with a drill shows that all is well. I am still confused about the way the cable is attached to the gearbox. Am I missing a part? Should the end of the iron clamp fall into a kind of ring which is situated on the cable?
When I red the C.A.T. Shop Notes (5th edition) page E-9 I see a drawning of the speedo cable installation where I see a kind of ring on the cable.
What is this kind of ring? Is this ring automatically supplied when one orders a new cable?
I should really appreciate it if somebody could provide me a detailed picture of the fitting of the cable on the gearbox.
Right now I am years and years driving with a waving needle of the speedometer without a clue what to do to rectify this.
Thanks in advance!

Regards,

Peter
 

sunalp

Diamond Level Sponsor
When I put a new speedo cable in a Tiger, there is a gear and clip to hold the gear on the cable and
there is an O ring so you don't get an oil leak. Maybe the "wobble" is because the gear is either not pushed
in all the way, defective or the wrong gear? Perhaps it's not meshing correctly with the speedo drive in the trans.
 

pruyter

Donation Time
Thank you very much sunalp for your advice and I will certainly check what you have mentioned!
But still I would like an answer regarding the clamp and the cable and of course a detailed picture how the clamp is holding the cable on the gearbox is much appreciated.

Regards,

Peter
 

sunalp

Diamond Level Sponsor
You're welcome! Unfortunately the Tiger is a customers car and is about 200 miles away from me at the moment.
 

studmobile

Diamond Level Sponsor
I found this listing. It was an auction and I'm not sure if he/they have another "in stock", but the picture looks correct.
to
Might also reference the Tiger parts list on this site. Go to Tech Data, scroll down to Sunbeam Tiger Parts List, go to p. 36. Look at parts 81-86.
I believe the RHD and LHD cables are different lengths. A small company I have used with good results is Speedometer and Tachometer and Restoration, in Colorado, who quickly made up a new unique cable for my Alpine. 719-632-3165, rusty@speedoservice.com
 

pruyter

Donation Time
Thanks again for the responses above! The picture in the parts list ( I have the parts list here at home) doesn't help me very much, because the drawning is not very detailed. That is why I was looking for a picture of how the cable is attached to the gearbox.
The picture of the cable on Parts.com shows that at the end of the cable is situated some kind of metal which suppose has something to do with the iron clamp. But....I am only guessing and that is not enough.
I really appreciate the help on this forum but I am really waiting on a message in which is clearly explained how the iron clamp holds the cable fastened on the gearbox and yes a photo might help a lot.

Regards,

Peter
 

studmobile

Diamond Level Sponsor
Perhaps David Kee Toploaders in Texas can help, at least worth a phone call or email. They work with these every day, and sell a great number of parts if needed.
 

pruyter

Donation Time
Thanks studmobile, unfortuneately (regarding being a Tiger owner) I am not living in the USA but in the Netherlands in Europe so calling to Texas could be an expensive matter although an email is an option.
If I want to inspect the drive gear (following the advice of Sunalp) how do I extract this gear from the gearbox? With the cable and clamp removed I don't see how to accomplish the removal of the drive gear.

Another question: how many teeth has the drive gear (helicoil) which is situated on the output shaft of the gearbox?

Regards,

Peter
 
Last edited:

Pete S.

Bronze Level Sponsor
Thank you very much sunalp for your advice and I will certainly check what you have mentioned!
But still I would like an answer regarding the clamp and the cable and of course a detailed picture how the clamp is holding the cable on the gearbox is much appreciated.

Regards,

Peter

See if this image helps.

IMG_2131.JPG
 

pruyter

Donation Time
Thank you very much Pete! This certainly helps!
Now I only need to know how to extract from the gearbox the driven gear which turns the cable.
I know that this driven gear has originally 15 teeth but that only a gear with 16 teeth is available, but what I like to know also is how many teeth has the drive gear (helicoil) which is attached to the output shaft of the gearbox.
Thanks in advance!
 

Pete S.

Bronze Level Sponsor
Thank you very much Pete! This certainly helps!
Now I only need to know how to extract from the gearbox the driven gear which turns the cable.
I know that this driven gear has originally 15 teeth but that only a gear with 16 teeth is available, but what I like to know also is how many teeth has the drive gear (helicoil) which is attached to the output shaft of the gearbox.
Thanks in advance!
The Mk.1 drive gear has 15 teeth for the close ratio gearbox. Mk. 2 used the wide ratio gearbox and had 16 teeth. To get to the drive gear, requires removing the tail shaft of the transmission.

The speedo cable connection on the transmission end can use different small plastic drive gears of different number of teeth. Each gear is a different color to indicate the number of teeth.

The cable drive gear is easy to change and I think they are available from Ford aftermarket parts suppliers. It's just a matter of doing a little math to figure out which speedo cable drive gear to use, based on your 16 tooth gear and the height of your tires.

Good luck.
 
Last edited:

pruyter

Donation Time
Thanks Pete! But how do I get out the driven gear on which the cable is connected? And how many teeth has the helicoil gear which drives the driven gear with 15 or 16 teeth?

Finally: I have a LSD differential and I can not find the special oil with the GL4 specification, I only find numerous LSD oils in the GL5 specification.
Is it possible to use the GL5 specification without problems? I know that the GL5 specification is bad for metals like bronze as in the synchromesh rings of a gearbox, but I can not remember of such a metal is used in the differential of a Tiger.
Thanks again in advance!
Regards,

Peter
 

Pete S.

Bronze Level Sponsor
Thanks Pete! But how do I get out the driven gear on which the cable is connected? And how many teeth has the helicoil gear which drives the driven gear with 15 or 16 teeth?

Finally: I have a LSD differential and I can not find the special oil with the GL4 specification, I only find numerous LSD oils in the GL5 specification.
Is it possible to use the GL5 specification without problems? I know that the GL5 specification is bad for metals like bronze as in the synchromesh rings of a gearbox, but I can not remember of such a metal is used in the differential of a Tiger.
Thanks again in advance!
Regards,

Peter

Ok, second question first -Yes, you should not use GL5 spec in any transmission that has yellow metal parts. Like the syncros in a top loader. You'll need a true GL4 gear oil there. I run Penngrade products in my diff and trans. I would contact them about your LSD diff. I have no idea if they have any yellow metal parts.

Here is a sample of cable end drive gears. The 17 tooth GREEN drive gear is in my car, so it is not shown. These go on the transmission end of the cable.

1700146552365.png

Notice at the bottom of each gear a slit for a "C" shaped retainer. You can find an online calculator where you enter your drive gear teeth, tire size etc. and it will tell you which drive gear will give you the best speedo calibration. To remove a drive gear, completely undo the bolt holding the bracket in the transmission image I posted. Give the cable a tug and it should pop right out.

BTW - the original speedometer reading will not be anywhere as exact as modern speedos. You should expect at least a 10% variance, either way from your actual speed.
 

pruyter

Donation Time
Yes this helps a lot!

One of my problems is that even with the cable out I can't extract the driven gear out of the gearbox that is why I asked how to accomplish this. So when I took out the cable from the gearbox there was no driven gear to be seen!
Is there some span ring above the driven gear that needs to be taken out first?
The C-shape retainer on the bottom of the driven gear is this retainer holding the gear on the cable?

And still I am curious to know how many teeth are on the helicoil gear that sits on the output shaft of the gearbox and wich drives the driven gear with 15 teeth.

Are there yellow parts in the standard differential (so without a LSD) of a Tiger?
 

Pete S.

Bronze Level Sponsor
Yes this helps a lot!

One of my problems is that even with the cable out I can't extract the driven gear out of the gearbox that is why I asked how to accomplish this. So when I took out the cable from the gearbox there was no driven gear to be seen!
Is there some span ring above the driven gear that needs to be taken out first?
The C-shape retainer on the bottom of the driven gear is this retainer holding the gear on the cable?

And still I am curious to know how many teeth are on the helicoil gear that sits on the output shaft of the gearbox and wich drives the driven gear with 15 teeth.

Are there yellow parts in the standard differential (so without a LSD) of a Tiger?
Oh, you're saying the small plastic gear from the cable is stuck inside the transmission?

First try and spin the transmission in the reverse direction via the rear wheels with the transmission in neutral. That might push the gear out.

If that doesn't work, maybe a piece of metal bent to an "L" shape. That might allow you catch the slot of the retainer and remove the gear.

As a last ditch try, the tip of the gear is hollow inside, a long, thin self tapping screw might get a grip and pull it out and probably ruin the gear in the process.

The Ford "Top Loader" transmission close ratio transmission used in Mk.1 cars was equipped with a 15 tooth gear on the output shaft. The wide ratio transmissions used in Mk.2 cars was equipped with a 16 tooth gear. Remember, these cars are more than 50 years old. There is no promise of original specs on any part of these cars.

Hope this helps!
 

pruyter

Donation Time
Sure this helps! Thanks again!

I am surprised about the teeth count because on the internet I have seen counts of 5 and 7 teeth for the helicoil and for the Sunbeam Tiger I have seen a count of 5 teeth. I think you are referring to the other gear the gear that is stuck in the gearbox because this gear has originally 15 teeth for the Tiger MK I.

I understand now from you that normally the plastic driven gear is fastened to the cable and if so how is it fastened to the cable?

Do you have any idea if there are yellow parts in a normal standard Tiger differential?

I must say that you have teached me a lot of things and this forum is very helpful. On the UK-forum I did not get any answers in 2017 and neither this year. So I stick to this forum with my questions. Again my sincerly gratitude for all your help!
 
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