• Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

SMALL BLOCK INTO ALPINE, water pump question

fonz

Silver Level Sponsor
Is that plate (round ring) a "press on" to the shaft, or "part of" the shaft and the impeller is "pressed on" , OR Both ?? HOW were you able to move it? on the car ?
 

PROCRAFT

Donation Time
wouldn't the waterpump have to be completely dis assembled to able to move the flange back. (round 1/4" plate that the fan bolts to)?
Just set up.under the impeller shaft and push the flange back,assuming you have a press.
 

Hoghead

Silver Level Sponsor
wouldn't the waterpump have to be completely dis assembled to able to move the flange back. (round 1/4" plate that the fan bolts to)?

Support the rear of the shaft at the impeller, and press the flange inboard. Easy on the early aluminium pump, and on the later cast style with backing plate, you will have to remove that back plate
 

Hoghead

Silver Level Sponsor
Then you would have to have the Tiger pulleys.

The three pullies need to line up, and the Fonz other problem is clearance at the crank pulley as the 72 Four bolt harmonic balancer with pulley sticks out too far.
I did this same swap a very long time ago and had to machine a skinny single sheave pulley to clear the Tiger rack - no idea if the Fonz steering rack is in the same location?
I am not aware of an aftermarket pulley set that will fit a Tiger, stock is very difficult to find, and why I made my own billet pullies

Given that the 72 harmonic balancer rubber bond is suspect by now, the easy solution is a 3 bolt balancer, and a Tiger crank pulley.
Push the pump flange inboard and job done!
 

Warren

Bronze Level Sponsor
Ha easy just spend money and follow the well worn path from decade's of Sunbeam owner's.
I have one spare left and the last one was priced at the benchmark of Robert's repop. The buyer jumped on it like a duck on a June bug because there's no other reasonable facsimile. Bite the bullet and order a set from Robert AKA Hoghead is he's shipping from far far away and you're going to have to wait for it and that's going to be bad enough.
 

fonz

Silver Level Sponsor
I woke up in the middle of the night thinking that I had described how to do it like a Tiger with the early style timing cover and pump.
You can keep the 72 timing chain cover and stock cast pump, and assuming the Tiger pullies, all you need to do is push the fan flange on the pump shaft inboard.
If you are using different pullies, or a 4 bolt dampner, then it is a different story...................

the 72 engine uses a 4 bolt balancer. (28 oz balancing). CAN a "289" (3 bolt) balancer be used if needed ???
 

fonz

Silver Level Sponsor
have to replace the balancer anyway, the ring spun about 100 degrees! (checked with a piston stop ) for TRUE TDC. So, I CAN use a 289 3 bolt balancer , good to know, If I use the 289 balancer, What waterpump ? 289 ? (right now has 302 long cast iron). then 289 pullies ?
 
Last edited:

260Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
You can use your waterpump. You have to press the flange on further to line up with the 289 pulley. Hoghead's Tiger pulleys would be shorter yet. The 289 waterpump has passenger side inlet. For your waterpump you will need a dual pass radiator like Joel. For the 289 waterpump you would use a Chevy style radiator.
 
Last edited:

fonz

Silver Level Sponsor
You can use your waterpump. You have to press the flange on further to line up with the 289 pulley. Hoghead's Tiger pulleys would be shorter yet. The 289 waterpump has passenger side inlet. For your waterpump you will need a dual pass radiator like Joel. For the 289 waterpump you would use a Chevy style radiator.

would think I'd have to have a Radiator "made" for these dimensions, and top left/bottom right outlets
 

Hoghead

Silver Level Sponsor
You can use your waterpump. You have to press the flange on further to line up with the 289 pulley. Hoghead's Tiger pulleys would be shorter yet. The 289 waterpump has passenger side inlet. For your waterpump you will need a dual pass radiator like Joel. For the 289 waterpump you would use a Chevy style radiator.

It has all been said before........
The crank pulley, alternator, and water pump alignment are interrelated. Now that you are resigned to get a 3 bolt x 28 oz harmonic balancer, then you still need a crank pulley. To my knowledge, there is no 289 pulley that will fit if you have Tiger like clearance at the steering rack If clearance at the rack is the issue, then your only choice is to machine a very flat pulley, or use a Tiger crank pulley

You can keep your cast style pump with backing plate, and simply press the pump flange rearward as suggested. The Ford Fairmont pulley comes only in an ugly 2 or 3 sheave style, but will align and help with the cooling problem that you are going to have. This is your best bet if you want a junkyard solution.
Other Ford pullies may well fit with some fettling of the flange position, however cooling is not optimal given the air flow issues and engine compartment design.

There is no easy solution..........................
 

Hoghead

Silver Level Sponsor
would you happen to have the parts number ?

Google:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-sun-00179/make/sunbeam/model/tiger/year/1965

Ron Davis in AZ makes good Tiger aluminium rads

Note that a copper rad will have a better heat transfer rate, and you will have a cooling problem.
It will cost a lot more than an aluminium one having said that, with the aluminium rad, and all the Tiger cooling tricks in the referenced paper, you should be fine in all but the worst conditions
 
Last edited:

PROCRAFT

Donation Time
would you happen to have the parts number ?
Cheaper at Summit than from Griffin and Ron Davis makes great stuff but their pricing is almost prohibitive for the common man,and Griffins radiator is epoxied after mfg. The latest build I'm doing I built my the radiator from a kit from Speedway Motors not for everyone but I got exactly what I wanted,I've been thru this most of the stuff posted here and just do my own stuff cruzeing the junk yard to find stuff that will work is counterproductive in my opinion.
 
Top