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Series 5 Heater water valve

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by John G, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. John G

    John G Donation Time

    Hi All

    The heater valve in my series 5 Alpine has failed yet again. The one in it when I bought the car five years ago gave up three years ago. I found one on the net and that lasted 2 months. Got another again on the net, seller assured me the quality was good but after 3 years has failed too. I estimate the car is driven once a month.

    I am looking for a long lasting replacement.

    Going back through the forums I found this

    https://mossmotors.com/search/page/2?q=heater+water+valve

    Heater Valve, Number 780-411

    Has anybody had a long run out the valves supplied by Moss Motors?

    Has anybody found a different long lasting valve that easily fits instead?

    Thanks for any help in advance.

    John G
     
  2. rixter

    rixter Platinum Level Sponsor

    It would have been nice if when these went into reproduction that the reproducers attempted to make them better. I suppose they are sticking true to the original design. Your link points to what looks exactly like the two that I have that failed. What failure did you get? On one of mine, the rod end popped off the casting body. On the other, it leaks right through the end with the push rod. Curt at Classic Sunbeam is in the middle of working with his supplier in the UK as he has had reports of several failed units this year. I bought my second one from him, hoping his would be better than the first. Both of my failures were in a car in restoration that has only had the engine run periodically.... not really driven.

    Rick

    P1110994r.jpg
     
  3. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    This photo is of a heater valve intended for use on the series 5 without modification to the MG valve itself. It has an adapter added for use on the Alpine. I buy these from AshleyHinton in the U.K. 110_0597.JPG
     
  4. John G

    John G Donation Time

    Hi Rick and 65 Beam

    To answer Ricks question both have failed by leaking from the centre push rod hole. The seal seams to be the weak link. With the problem yesterday I tried opening the heater to see if leak would stop but it made the leak gush out instead.

    When ordering parts from Sunbeam Specialities in the past, I asked why the valve was no longer in stock and was told that they could not find a reliable valve to supply to their customers.

    My question to 65 Beam is about the longevity of the MG valve. Have you had a good experience? Down here in Australia we can travel 1000's of kms to attend interstate runs and now I am looking for reliability in the next valve.

    Thanks Guys

    John G
     
  5. Barry

    Barry Platinum Level Sponsor

    IIRC, Honda used a similar heater control valve on a Civic or Accord (???) that is compatible with the Alpine set-up. Like most Honda parts, it supposedly lasts forever. Anybody recall the details?
     
  6. 65sunbeam

    65sunbeam SAOCA Membership Director Platinum Level Sponsor

    Maybe use the valve used on earlier Alpines? Not correct for a later Alpine but they seem to last longer.....
     
  7. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    Some more background on repro heater control valves at: http://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/mgc-heater-control-valve.26626/

    Classic Sunbeam and Moss Motors are selling the same repro units, which have a high failure rate.

    I'm interested to see the details of the internal valve modification mentioned by Tim R (post #8), once the SAOC site access is granted to SAOCA Platinum and higher members.

    Mike
     
  8. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    I've had no experience either good or bad with any of the replacement valves. I've been lucky over the years since I don't recall ever having a leaky valve. I have a couple of the MG valves that I bought and modified myself using thick wall aluminum tubing and the epoxy now used for body panel work. I bought a couple of the Ashley Hinton valves for my stock simply because of the adapter. Are the valves from Ashley Hinton the same ones Moss, etc. sell? I have no idea but they can't be worse than the ones everybody seems to have problems with.
     
  9. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    Barry,
    I have a couple of the Honda valves that I bought from Doug @ Tiger Auto. I seem to remember him saying they were from a late 70's or early 80's Civic. I'll be talking to him next week so I'll ask him if he remembers what car they were used on.
     
  10. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    Here's a plastic valve that has done me well for aBOUT 12 YEARS.

    The valve is located in the top of the 1st pic above the coil. It is a straight black plastic valve with a cable connection that works like the stock cable. Enlarger the PIC for better view.

    In the 2nd PIC it is located at the bottom of the picture just below the pressure gauge. Again enlarge the PIC for a better view.

    I will have to get the part number and some better pictures later because i'm doing this on a phone.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  11. sunalp

    sunalp Platinum Level Sponsor

    I tried to get the Honda valve from a very good NAPA dealer locally
    and they could not find one in their data base. I eventually bought one from Classic
    and it's been on my car for a while ( don't remember exactly when I bought it)
    and so far, no leaks.

    Dan, looked at your pictures really hard ( it may be my eyes) but I couldn't see your valve.

    We really need to find a solution for this other than blocking off the heater valve as our cars aren't
    getting any younger. ( Neither are we!)

    Cheers!
    Steve
     
  12. Barry

    Barry Platinum Level Sponsor

    Steve,

    The HCV is immediately above the ignition coil in the first picture and at the bottom left (below a pressure or temperature gauge ???) in the second picture.
     
  13. v13311

    v13311 Silver Level Sponsor

    I cannot find it in the pictures also.

    Ed
     
  14. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Diamond Level Sponsor

    You might look at the 1965 Ford pickups and vans for a workable solution. The valves are straight and very simple. Mine is cable controlled and the valve rotation can be reversed. A very practical solution, but definitely does not have the British sports car era "look". It has lasted ten years and 100,000 miles. Not bad for fifteen bucks.

    Bill
     
    Paul A likes this.
  15. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    OK Guys try this!
    I also use Gates Heat Shrink Hose connectors.

    Commodore Blue with a view of the Air Compressor and the fittings. 20170403_174125 (1200x900).jpg
     
    Paul A likes this.
  16. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    This is a much better valve and an easy way to eliminate leaks It was used on all cars prior to series 5 so there are a lot of the brackets and the valves are available new. 107_1010.JPG
     
    Paul A likes this.
  17. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Diamond Level Sponsor

    Dan, that looks like the Ford valve.
    Bill
     
  18. rixter

    rixter Platinum Level Sponsor

    I communicated with one of the distributors of the late series original style replacement Alpine heater valves and his response was that there was just the sole supplier in the UK for these. He further commented that the originals were junk and the replacements aren't much better.

    I thought a bolt/screw arrangement on the end plate as opposed to the distortion of the casting tabs could potentially address two of the common failures of these valves. That being that the end can pop off and the inner seals have issues. At least the unit would be potentially serviceable if the end could be easily removed and replaced. This would require a redesign of the body casting to include bosses for bolts or screws to fasten the end plate on. It seems this could be done without significantly changing the look of the valve.

    Because I have two of these that have failed (one out of warranty range that had the end pop off), I had the luxury of being able to experiment with the concept of a removable end plate. There is not a lot of "meat" around the perimeter of the valve to have holes for bolts where the tabs presently are located. Drilling a hole too far in will compromise the end seal that sits in a recession at the end of the casting. So I ground off the tabs and puts grooves on the outer edges so my "clamping" screws are partially outside of the casting. I widened the slots in the end plate slightly for the screws. Then I added washer rings to contain the screws with nuts from slipping off the edge of the casting. I will have to pressure test this once the internals are reinstalled and see if I can at least have one valve that works.

    As far as valves that leak through the shaft, I can't take the one I have in warranty status apart to see what the weakness is in the sealing. So I don't know if the issue is the quality of the rubber or the integrity of the sealing.

    Rick

    P1130489r.jpg P1130490r.jpg P1130492r.jpg P1130503r.jpg P1130510r.jpg
     
  19. Warren

    Warren Silver Level Sponsor

    Not to hijack but the earlier valves I have had are easily cleaned by removing the rivet and have been good for me. I was and continue to be amazed at how this later valve was promoted as an upgrade, dam cheap Chrysler cars ;)
    The Fakebook Tiger page has a nice suggestion to completely replace the pressed in spout and tap and thread a short nipple in it's place sealed with JB weld as a thread sealant and a raised ridge to keep the hose on.
     
  20. George Coleman

    George Coleman Gold Level Sponsor

    SIV-V Heater Control Valve

    81-83 Honda civic 1300,1500, Wagon, Honda part# 39271-SA0023 (old part may be hard to find)

    Murray Temp. Controls, Part# 277474


    This has worked well for me but they are getting hard to find I do have two new ones if interested, I should make a note that this one looks like the org.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019

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