Seeking suggestions and Instructions for an Alternator Conversion

[Scotty]

Hi everyone!

I have a Series IV converted to negative ground with a 1725, Weber, etc. I have been using the generator off of the previous engine and want to put in an Alternator. I have the elusive 1725 Alternator bracket and original parts to screw/bolt it onto the engine (I forget offhand what it has but it's all original, all together sitting on my shelf and in great condition).

I'd like to do this job once so I'd like to hear the easiest and best way to approach this and the wiring. I've considered just buying the Lucas Alternator that came stock with the 1725. I've considered buying the Hitachi 14231 and have read posts about brackets bending, breaking and vibration issues. So I'm not sure what road to travel. I have a brand new Voltage Regulator from Rick and brand new wiring to go with it already installed.

I'm not running GPS, not charging Cell Phones or anything like that on this car. The most technologically advanced thing I -might- put in or require the car to run, is a radio. When I drive, I like hearing the engine and the quiet around it. I'm a weird duck but I enjoy the experience of driving my car.

So gang, please help me... how do I do this?

 

[RootesRacer]

I installed a 1 wire mini alternator that has more capacity than all the alternators you mentioned.
50 amps, fits under headers, no control unit required.

 

[rixter]

There are three components in the stock charging circuit of a series 5/1725 engine in addition to the alternator. The voltage regulator is just one. There is also a 6RA relay and 3AW warning light simulator. You can still find these parts with a hunt. All three of these parts would not be required if using an after-market alternator that handles these functions internally. I am not aware of additional bracket breaking or vibration issues with after-market alternators, but would be interested in knowing of such reports as I have been using an after-market alternator without issues.

You could get either arrangement to work to meet your needs. It may come down to how much of the "look and feel" of original do you want and how important the investment you've already made into parts is

Rick

 

[BEpine]

I used a WAI Global 14597N alternator, modified my generator bracket and made the adjustment bracket from some 1/4 x 3/4 steel flat bar.
Its a 3 wire, Battery, Ignition, and Ground. Got the "T" connector from maniacelectricmotors.com part #9801193 This unit puts out 57 amps @ 6000 RPM

 

[Tom H]

I've been using a Hitachi 14231 installed on my SV, using the original SV Alternator bracket. Installed it in 2005 and have driven it over 20,000 miles on 3 west coast trips, from Cleveland, with no problems. I would not recommend going with an original Lucas Alt. And as you note, no need for any high output Alt. BTW GPS and cell phone charging do not take much power. I have a Word doc that shows the wiring changes needed for changing from SIV to Hitachi 14231 (or similar Alt). They are usually priced about $50 to $75 and available at just about any auto parts store. I can e-mail the Word doc to you or maybe someone can tell me how to post it here.

Tom

 

[BEpine]

Here is the link to the the alternator conversion and wiring diagram I'm using for the 14597 alternator.
https://teae.org/m7-alternator-conversion-for-series-i-iv-alpines/

 

[PROCRAFT]

Hi everyone!

I have a Series IV converted to negative ground with a 1725, Weber, etc. I have been using the generator off of the previous engine and want to put in an Alternator. I have the elusive 1725 Alternator bracket and original parts to screw/bolt it onto the engine (I forget offhand what it has but it's all original, all together sitting on my shelf and in great condition).

I'd like to do this job once so I'd like to hear the easiest and best way to approach this and the wiring. I've considered just buying the Lucas Alternator that came stock with the 1725. I've considered buying the Hitachi 14231 and have read posts about brackets bending, breaking and vibration issues. So I'm not sure what road to travel. I have a brand new Voltage Regulator from Rick and brand new wiring to go with it already installed.

I'm not running GPS, not charging Cell Phones or anything like that on this car. The most technologically advanced thing I -might- put in or require the car to run, is a radio. When I drive, I like hearing the engine and the quiet around it. I'm a weird duck but I enjoy the experience of driving my car.

So gang, please help me... how do I do this?

Get a single wire alternator self exciting, instead of fooling around with a voltage regulator,nippodenso is one brand,50 amps otta do the trick, denso is found on most of the rice grinders,of you decide to look at junk yards, you can also buy Powermaster mini's from summit Jegs etc,and keeping in mind you need a v belt pulley,a lot of later stuff is a flat belt drive.
More stuff to ponder.

 

[Bill Blue]

I have found there is a lot of interchangeability between alternator pulley styles. Knowing what interchanges and what does not is another of life's mysteries. My bet is that if you buy a new alternator with the wrong pulley, a pulley from the same model alternator taken off a junker will work.

Bill

 

[Tom H]

Here is the link to the the alternator conversion and wiring diagram I'm using for the 14597 alternator.
https://teae.org/m7-alternator-conversion-for-series-i-iv-alpines/

Good overall description except this diagram has a significant error in how the ammeter is wired in. If wired as in this drawing the ammeter will only measure current coming FROM the alternator and will never show negative as it should if the alternator is not working. Wired like this, if the alternator is not working, the ammeter will show zero, instead of showing you that the battery, not the alternator, is supplying all the electricity for the car. Won't be long before the battery is dead on the road and the car stops, and you have no idea that the alt was not working.

Dan Richardson will post my diagram soon. It will also include step-by step details of which wires to move and where.

Tom

 

[Bill Blue]

Tom, I rather like that arrangement. Changes the ammeter so its function is somewhat like a voltmeter's. You do not have to be a certified genius to know that if the alternator is putting out zero amps, you are running on the battery and on the high road to trouble. Conversely, if the alternator is putting out 50 amps with nothing on but the engine, your in deep doo doo.

Bill

 

[BEpine]

I'm going to skip the ammeter and just use a voltmeter

 

[hartmandm]

Dan Richardson will post my diagram soon. It will also include step-by step details of which wires to move and where.

Tom

Tom,

Do you have another write-up other than the one at: http://mhartman.net/files/sunbeam/Hitachi 14231 Alternator wiring rev 2.pdf
or is this a new write-up to correct the one on the TE/AE site?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Tom H]

Mike. That's the one I did for SV. And I tried to make it more detailed in terms of steps from stock to mod. But as part of it I also corrected the ammeter wiring. I don't think I sent you the one I did for SI-IV . I'll send that to you now and maybe you can clean up my hand drawn diagrams.

 

[Tom H]

Bill, I disagree about the ammeter. A voltmeter is much better than the mis-wirded ammeter. The voltmeter can be easily interpreted to tell you if the battery is being charged, being discharged, fully charged. Wired as in TE/AE article I can see that it IS possible to usefully interpret the ammeter. as long as it is you that's doing the interpretation, and you don't mind that all the readings are squeezed into only the Positive half of the dial. I'll bet any mechanic working on a car wired this way would be quite confused as to why the ammeter will not show any reading when the lights are turned on with the motor not running.

To BEpine, Voltmeter is a good idea.

Tom

 

[Bill Blue]

Bill, I disagree about the ammeter. A voltmeter is much better than the mis-wirded ammeter. The voltmeter can be easily interpreted to tell you if the battery is being charged, being discharged, fully charged. Wired as in TE/AE article I can see that it IS possible to usefully interpret the ammeter. as long as it is you that's doing the interpretation, and you don't mind that all the readings are squeezed into only the Positive half of the dial. I'll bet any mechanic working on a car wired this way would be quite confused as to why the ammeter will not show any reading when the lights are turned on with the motor not running.

To BEpine, Voltmeter is a good idea.

Tom

Agree or disagree about nothing, I'm simply pointing out a different point of view.

Bill

 

[Scotty]

I had one in the SV, but my SIV lacks an Ammeter or a Voltmeter and I've been doing pretty well with the generator I have to see if it's working by the 'pulsing' warning light.

I picked up a generic Hitachi 14231 pretty cheap, so I'm going that route. I'm going to use the 1725's alternator bracket, just have to find and source the pulley belt since it sounds like the one I have won't work. Which belt should I use?

Is there any radical differences in wiring between the IV and V that I don't know about for this, beyond not having an Ammeter/Voltmeter? I like the idea of having one and I have a 'blank' spot on my dash for another gauge, which is actually where the Ammeter would go. Also, since my IV has been swapped to negative ground, is there anything I need to keep a mental note on to switch around since (and I'm assuming on this so please correct me here) + wires would be - because of the polarity swap or am I overthinking it?

I really appreciate everyone's help and input on this. It's a very new thing to me and it's another aspect of my IV that I'm learning after having it for a long time. Thank you all for helping me keep it on the road!

 

[Tom H]

Scotty, the biggest difference between SV and SIV wiring is the charging circuit, of course. Once you install a modern Alternator with built in regulator, they will be about the same . But figuring out which wire to move to where and which to remove, gets tricky. Send me a PM with your e-mail and I will send you a Word doc with Instructions for swapping your new Alt into your SIV.

 

[BEpine]

For the belt, I used a Gates 7370 XL High Capacity V-Belt, Tried a few different belts and this was the best fit. There's not much room for adjustment.

Bob

 

[RootesRooter]

I see people are apparently using a stock SV alternator bracket with the Hitachi unit. Are you elongating the holes in the bracket to move the alternator forward and align the pulleys? I think my pulleys were a good 1/2" out of alignment with an unaltered bracket.

 

[BEpine]

Yes, I elongated the holes to line up the pulleys then welded washers so the bracket would not move out of the set position.
This was a generator bracket I modified.


Bob