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See anything wrong with the clutch?

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by howehap, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. RootesRooter

    RootesRooter Platinum Level Sponsor

    Why is one spring in the clutch disc a different color? Any chance its broken?
     
  2. howehap

    howehap Gold Level Sponsor

    I just carefully checked all 4 springs in the clutch disc. They are all good. There is red rust dust on one of the springs in the photo. The other springs still have some rust dust too, but much of it was wiped or blown off.

    I removed a burr on one one of the throwout bearing mounting pins and lightly sanded and lubed them. The throwout bearing now more easily pivots in the fork
     
  3. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    Since you have everything apart, I would install a new throw-out bearing and new clutch disc before re-assembling.

    Mike
     
    RootesRooter likes this.
  4. Tim R

    Tim R Silver Level Sponsor

    I sympathise with you as clutch issues on an Alpine can be extremely difficult to locate and solve. The three clutches in the photos were all sold to us by specialist Alpine dealers as Series V clutches. All fit to the flywheel and the height of the bearing face is identical. The central plate, where the fingers locate, is however about 8mm different in length on one of them. When fitted we found that we had perfect clutch when pedal was ⅔ down but no clutch above or below that point! Depressing the pedal was sending things 'over centre'. We had the engine and gearbox in the car and out again three times before we were able to finally isolate the problem, it was very far from obvious. When you add the fact that different height pedestals were used on some Series cars, various diameter Master cylinders available and how difficult it can be to bleed ALL of the car out of the system, Alpine clutches can be a nightmare. I would be tempted to check that you have the correct pedestal and fork then buy all three parts brand new from your most trusted supplier and start again.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Tim R

    Tim R Silver Level Sponsor

    I have just read the original thread where Pruyter mentions me and the clutch problem that I refer to above. I am pretty confident that you have the exact same problem. In one post on the original thread the problem of going 'over centre' is actually mentioned. Compare the length of the boss with a clutch that you are confident is a correct Series V one.
    Tim R
     
  6. howehap

    howehap Gold Level Sponsor

    Tim,
    Thank you for the interesting info on pressure plates. The original thread started with the series V that I am working on, and later another person started to discuss his clutch problem with a early series Alpine that most likely does have a "over center" problem. I feel confident that I don't have a "going over center problem".

    I did a clutch disengagement evaluation by depressing clutch pedal in one inch increaments and trying to turn the drive shaft by hand with the car off the ground. I don't have the paper of results in front of me, put the drive shaft could be turned with some resistance when the pedal reached about half way down. When I pushed the pedal down more, it got a little bit easier, but it never got to the point where it felt "easy". I know turning the gears and shafts inside the transmission takes some force, but it still subjectivly felt that the clutch might have still been dragging a little.

    The photo showing the pressure plate mounted to the blue engine, did that turn out to be the correct one? That looks like the pressur plate that I have.
    Thanks
    -Bob
     
  7. howehap

    howehap Gold Level Sponsor

    I just found one issue that may make a difference. I have the .4325" dowel pin on one side of the bellhousing connection. On the other side of the bellhousing was a .375" bolt instead of a ".4325 inch dowel bolt" that would is needed to accurately line up the transmission bellhousing to engine. The .375" bolt could result in a (.4325 - .375)/2 = .029" mismatch at one side of the bellhousing dowel pin hole or .029/2 = .015" mismatch at the pilot bearing.
    I'm going to install a .4325"smooth shank bolt in the hole, it provides a nice tight fit.
     
  8. Tim R

    Tim R Silver Level Sponsor

    The clutch the blue engine is on my car and has been fine throughout, I just posted the photo to illustrate the differences between the various pattern manufacturers of Alpine Series V clutches. The other two were both on my son's Series V at different times as we tried to find out what was wrong with his clutch. The one in the picture below has been working well on his car for the last 6 years now. When you look at the shape and profile it is similar to the one on my car (and yours). The odd one out is the one with the shallower body in the picture I posted above where the spirit level is sitting across the two. I suspect that this clutch is either for a different series car or possibly not an Alpine at all. Good luck with replacing the dowel I hope that this turns out to be the problem.

    Tim R
     

    Attached Files:

  9. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    FYI - I noticed the number stamped on your throw-out bearing fork (a.k.a. "Clutch Withdrawal Lever") is the same number that is on my series V (VIN 6147) fork - 1980933.

    Mike
     
  10. Knightowl61

    Knightowl61 Gold Level Sponsor

    If memory serves.... Back in the 70's when I switched a series 2 to an all synchro tranny there was a difference in the pressure plate and/or the throw-out bearing fork.
     
  11. sunalp

    sunalp Platinum Level Sponsor

    Just a little off topic, but if you have a SV clutch cover and disk there's a great rebuilder
    in Long Island that just rebuilt mine. Falcon Clutch has been in business ( family run)
    for many years and specializes in classic and hard to find clutches and parts.

    Totally rebuilt mine and was very reasonable too! I'd highly recommend them.

    Cheers!
    Steve
     
  12. RootesRooter

    RootesRooter Platinum Level Sponsor

    I tried to go back to the beginning of your threads but got lost. Just to refresh: Are all of the clutch parts, including flywheel and bellhousing, Series IV-V or is it a mishmash of early and late Series?
     
  13. jumpinjan

    jumpinjan Donation Time

    Okay, I think you found the problem. Misalignment of the input shaft to the pilot bearing
    Jan
     
  14. howehap

    howehap Gold Level Sponsor

    It's a Series V and I believe everything is matching Series V parts. I don't know of any mismatched part. I hope to have everything back together tomorrow and I will report back.
    -Bob
     
  15. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    The possible deviations from the stock setup I have seen are the pilot needle bearing and the pressure plate. Based on the measurements you took of the pressure plate, it seems likely the pressure plate is a good replacement for the original. Do you know the background of the pilot needle bearing?

    And I mentioned before, your clutch disc and throw-out bearing show signs of wear. May as well replace them before re-assembling. That might double the length of time before the gearbox needs to be removed again.

    Hopefully you just have a bell housing alignment issue. Keeping my fingers crossed.

    Mike
     
  16. howehap

    howehap Gold Level Sponsor

    The series V is back together. It is now easier to engage 1st, reverse still grinds a little when engaged directly from neutual . I tried Mike's method of engaging 1st gear and then quickly going into reverse. It works like a charm!

    So bottom line, installing the "dowel bolt" allowed the pilot bearing to be correctly lined up with the transmission input shaft, resulting in the clutch disengaging better.

    I also installed a different Alpine radiator that I had, and the engine does not overheat.
     
  17. howehap

    howehap Gold Level Sponsor

    So thanks to everyone for the help. Now that I have my friend's Alpine up and running, I am going to start on my Autumn Gold Series III
    -Bob
     

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