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Sam's Car (the Green1) V6 Conversion by DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Here's to Sam! A PO of a SV that He had started doing the Jose V6 Conversion, but ran into some health problems and offered for sale. I took him up on the offer and I am working on the "Green1" (referred to as Sam's <your> Car) at present and dividing my time between several projects. While waiting on the header work on one or the engine work on another or trying to get parts for another I am kept fairly busy! All fun of course! Now another SAOCA Member wants me to help install a V6 in his Alpine (it is an Automatic Bw35 like my GT).

My GT is awaiting some Header work where I have made contact with an outfit that builds custom headers. I have designed a set that will run straight back (Not out the side). Probably put them on both cars the Green1 and the Red GT for starters.

Sam, During the process of inspecting the Green1 I discovered several areas that are in need of some extensive work (due to rust). I am not complaining! Just stating some hard facts. When you get to the comments on the engine, I have some PIC's that confirm my findings. Again, it is not to complain! Just something that I found and needed correction. Otherwise it would have damaged the engine when running. As I said before, I am happy with the deal and have proceeded with the V6 Conversion. During the process I have made a few modifications to "improve" the Conversion (s). Mainly the headers and engine mounts. The Engine Mounts are my design entirely. I believe they are easier to make, simpler to install and sit squarely on the cross member utilizing a much larger biscuit without changing the engine height and if used in conjunction with the T5 bracket there is "NO Trial and Error" in placing the V6 engine on the crossmember.

The following is a narrative of my findings, remarks and work thus far on the Green1: My Rotisserie is tied up with the 1965 Early Series IV BW35(AT) GT undergoing V6 Conversion and exhaust work so I borrowed a friends rotisserie. It will also take lots of work to get it modified to work with the Green 1 or any of my other Alpines. That portion of the project will have to wait awhile, so, after making room for the Green1 in one of my shops I was finally able to start taking it apart.

I started by removing the hood. Found some major rust in the area between the hood hinges. Both hood hinges are good. Then trunk lid. Springs and arms good shape. Hinges fair to good drivers., But, I will have them re-chromed!

The Fuel tanks and associated pipes and pieces were in good condition. Very surprising in that they are nearly always showing some rust on the bottoms. Brackets for the tanks have a good original paint (Colour Code 86). Squirrel/chipmunk/rat nest etc., stuff added up to about two gallons of trash. The bottom sheet metal in trunk area appears fairly good. One of the former PO’s had made a couple of patches to deal with rust. Nothing major. Of course the Rubber hose pieces will be ordered new. The clamps are original and like new.

Removed wiper and washer bezels . Busted the LH wiper bezel because of rust and corrosion. They need replacing! I removed the windshield frame. It is rusted very badly on both sides near the door post. Probably will be replaced with a better frame from a donor car.

The Heater core appears good (anyone need a good one $10 +shipping). Removed the outside vent covers which were in good condition.

The Tail lights and park/turn signal lights are good drivers. The PO had cut the wiring in the car where it was no longer usable except for the head lights, park/running lights, and horn wires. The wiring from the front that provides power to the tail lights and fuel tank gauge were there and in good condition. A complete wiring harness plus a nice panel and Gauges came with the Green1.

Next I started by removing the drivers side door, man those hinge bolts/screws just don't like being removed. Special hammer tool only way to go. The door glass was busted. Bottom of the door on the inside rusted very badly. Outside not so bad. Possibly need a donor door ! One screw has refused to budge! Soaking in WD40 on a frequent basis.

Window vent glasses in both doors are in good condition, the chrome fair to good and I can clean them to be a nice pieces except for the bottom pieces under the vent, both need re chroming. There is the usual rust and screws stripped.

Went to passenger side door, much better condition. Free of rust! I was able to save the door glass and track mechanism. Again, much trouble getting the screws out of the hinges. Usual rusty pieces and screws stripping off when removal attempted. Stripped out the old tar paper from doors and removed a lot of crud from years of accumulation.

Both window mechanisms are in nice condition. Door pulls are in great shape.

Outside door handles needs re-chroming, otherwise good drivers. However, they will get re-chromed.

Removed the crossover linkage to the steering and replaced with the piece from Jose's kit that you purchased back in 2007.

Remember, I have the engine on a stand in my "1 shop, free of grit, grim and dust. It has central heat and Air where I spend most of my time on my cars. It is here that I recently took time to look at the Green1's V6 engine a bit more closely. I noticed small metal shavings around the valve covers some time back, became curious, so, I removed the covers and found shavings in the oil return valleys. Removed the 4 bbl Intake manifold and found some inside the valley area around the lifters. Had a discussion with my Machine Shop guy who advised me to remove the oil pan also. That done, I found some additional shavings and crud from when the engine was being built. Sam, I'm not sure where you purchased the engine but would like to know if you remember. Can't find it in the papers you provided. At this point for safety, I started a disassembly of the entire engine.

My Shop Guy says it was not balanced during re-build. So off to the Machine Shop in Charleston, SC for balancing like I did my other V6. $175.00 is an expense well worth the money and time to get it done right!

After stripping the Alpine except the front and rear end running gear from the car, I started installing a “Mock-up” engine block w/timing cover (TC), water pump, bell housing and the T5 you had purchased.

With the “mock-up” in the car, I fastened Jose’s Transmission (manual) Bracket(Not slotted at this time) that was in the Kit you bought back in 2007 in place, fastened my (designed) engine mount brackets to the engine and sat it in place on the cross member.

Added a set of heads from your engine, then the headers from Jose's kit. Installed an unmodified radiator so that I would not damage the one you had provided. Also a “dmich fan” in order to check for clearance. I have one inch. (Nice! Huh?).

Made sure of adequate clearance of the headers, and steering before tack welding. Perfect fit.

Next, I need to make sure of the measurements of the distance between the T5 tail shaft and yoke on the Alpine SV rear end so I can get the driveshaft made. I have a wag of 32” so far. Remember the "long tubular package you gave me? The drive shaft? Yes that is where I get the 90 Thunderbird front yoke Jose recommended! After opening the container I discovered it was marked as a '88 T-bird Driveshaft. It had a huge collar making it to big for the Alpine. Thanks for having it available anyway. Cline Co of Greenville, SC was able to remove the collar and use the Yoke.

I have made Pictures of what progress that has been made so far on the Green1. I will make available later on.

When I get the measurements for the drive shaft, I will remove all of the Mock-up stuff and start the body work. A long process for me!

Now it's back and forth between the Red GT and the Green1 and occasionally working on my others?

Up date as of June 28, 2014: Dropped the engine parts off at Simmons machine in Charleston, SC for balancing Wednesday past. Due for pick-up in about two weeks.

As I was tearing down the Green1's V6 engine at the Machine Shop in Greenwood, SC, I discovered a major problem, the cam was too small for the engine cam journals and cam and timing gear was able to wobble around (Have two segments on video). The engine is a late model V6 (Bronco II '84) and the cam is for the Mustang II. The cam Journals are certainly different.

Picked up my driveshaft for Green1 from the Cline Co in Greenville, SC. Looks nice. I had two made while at it (the second was for my '65 SIV BW35 GT conversion. One new front yoke and four U-joints, Total cost $368.96 for the two.

Update as of July 12, 2014
Took/towed the Green1 to a radiator shop in Anderson (Gerald's Radiator) to have the "modified" radiator modified to fit the "modified" Thermostat Housing Outlet that had been "fixed" for a heater option. I had to also modify it to allow a heater hose connection. I did this by tapping a pipe thread into the side of the housing where I have seen some factory heater hose connections on I believe the Capri's (?) It works nicely.


Let me know what you think of the progress made so far and if you have any questions.

Keep’em-on-the-Road,
 
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Greggers

SAOCA Vice President
Platinum Level Sponsor
Dan,

Great write up. I hope you keep it going for us (and Sam). I also hope you post lots of pictures. If you recall, I helped resize and post pictures for you in the past, and I'd be happy to continue that tradition. Feel free to email me any you'd like to post.
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
I remember Greg and Thanks for the offer. I have a good many PIC's that will come in handy for the next guy! And many more to be taken.
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Personal ?

Mr Bill, You only know a small bit of the "personal" problem.

One day soon I will let you know of some of the difficulty.

DanR
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Wrong cam!

At Dan's request, I'm sharing links to two videos of the inner workings of the Green1's engine:

MPG files:
Cam gear wiggle
Bare cam wiggle

MP4 files:
Cam gear wiggle
Bare cam wiggle

For clarification these videos record a take down of an engine that had the wrong cam installed by the builder (Not me). The Mustang II engine has smaller cam journals than the 83-85 Ranger/Bronco II's. The engine in the Video is a '84 with the larger journals. The cam is for a mustangII w/smaller journals that is why the "very obvious" play in the gears and the journals.

As a word of caution: they are not readily interchangeable.

If you have a Mustang II V6 or a later engine from a Ranger/ Bronco II, and want a cam other than stock there are several sources available such as COMP CAMs....and Delta Cams..... Just Please tell them what engine you have.
 
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DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Sam's Car (the Green1) V6 Conversion by DanR(Update)

The Heads from Sam's Green1 were taken apart because a close look at the Valves indicated there was a mis-match in them.
After removing the valves we found where three valves in each head had been replaced but the others had been ground down to a dangerous condition. All being stock Mustang II valves.

I am having the heads completely reworked to include some port and polish work and all new 2.9 valve will be installed. Also, the additional Water passages drilled as per Sven Pruitt (The 60 degree V6 Master).

STAY TUNED,
 
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DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Update on the Green1

Continuation on the restoration of Sam's Green1: It has been a while since I last updated and there are a lot of things done with still a bunch and I mean a bunch to do!

The angle for the outlet on the Green1's "modified" radiator was too far off to make an alignment to the Thermostat housing. The radiator had been brazed instead of soldered which caused some problems with the needed modification to correct the angle. All is well now! I have a lot of clearance between the crossmember and the fan. A bit tight in getting a piece of hose (almost straight) to slip on but it is looking good. I left stock radiator with Gerald for a quote on building a three (3) tube, seventeen (17) fin radiator for V6 Alpine.

PLEASE NOTE THE ABOVE HIGHLIGHTED Radiator modification was a recommendation for the V6 Conversion that I found very unsuitable and struggled with for sometime BEFORE I came up with a better solution for my Conversions.....See Below comments

Contacted another Radiator Shop that does custom Aluminum Radiators for help in designing a nice fitting cross flow for the V6 in an Alpine.

Not at all happy with the radiator connections.... There's got-a-be-a-better-way?

Time has taken a toll on my time for the Green1. During the past few months I have spent way too much time on getting new engine mounts, and straight back headers designed and fabricated.

I now have a very nice set of engine mounts fabricated and offer them for sale. They are for each side and the engine is supported with-an-over-the-counter rubber biscuit Anchor 2424.

Also, a completely new designed transmission mount bracket, one piece, no welding laser cut and formed to my specifications. It allows for the dual exhaust to be routed straight back similar to the Tiger system. And that leads me to my next project that has been completed.... straight back headers (like the Tigers). They do not stick out the side of the car and are absolutely above being dragged:)

One thing leads to another, so, another few items have been added to the conversion components list. A Slave cylinder bracket which mounts farther away from the headers. An Alternator bracket in two pieces which also allows some adjustment in aligning the Alternator to your pulleys. And beings that I have A/C in my Commodore Blue Alpine (1725), I naturally wanted A/C in the Green1, so I now have the A/C mount bracket for the 2.8 V6. Ride cool guys:)

Modified thermostat housings and a new modified water neck are included as improvements on the conversion.

I recommend the radiator modifications be re-visited! After my visit to the Radiator shop in Anderson, SC, I came away giving much thought to "Why should it be so difficult to get the bottom hose on the thermostat housing and the radiator nipple in such a small/short distance?" After a discussion with a few friends I decided to keep the top hose connection on the left side and go with a 90 degree elbow on the bottom right pointing straight back under the radiator toward the left side. I found a radiator hose that was near perfect for the bottom (trim a couple inches from both ends for a neat fit). Still not being completely satisfied with the top hose connections, I am now turning the top connection of the radiator about 10 degrees toward the center of the engine and slightly upward 3 to 5 degrees.

I have also modified the steering in the Green1 to have Electric Power Steering (EPS). Now that is really something! No hyd hoses or pumps, just a 12 volt electric motor and a gear drive that allows your "pinky" to turn the steering wheel in a parking place if you so desire.

Lots of body work and primer have been spread! Just started insulating the floor pans and some other body parts inside the Green1. Ran out of both Dynamat and LizardSkin. Made a re-order on that stuff (expensive but worth it all). Remember I did my '67 Commodore Blue with dynamat and LizardSkin and it is sure quite and cool:)

The Commodore Blue now has the 2.8 V6.

Let me know what you think of the progress made so far and if you have any questions.

Keep’em-on-the-Road,
 
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DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
PIC's of Sam's Green1 in various stages

These PIC's are at various stages from when I took possession of the V6.

Some pictures are out of sequence. I will also attempt to explain them.

The first three are from where I discovered metal shavings in and around the valves and caused me to tear down the engine.

4th is what I found after removing the fuel tanks:eek:
5th shows the rust along the leading edge of the front between the hood hinges.
 

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DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
PIC's of Sam's Green1 in various stages

1st and 2nd PIC's are of the Green1's main body which appears solid.

3rd Can be said to be a typical spare tire holder - rusted as many are. With all the rust and it needing replacement I simply modified the trunk area to take a larger/wider wheel which most of our Alpines are now running such as P195 55s on 15 x 7" rims. More on the trunk mods later.

4th Is a "Mock up" I used before and highly recommend something similar for you if doing a V6 conversion. I had the misfortune of having a cracked block and a couple heads, so I made good use by hooking them to the T5 in this PIC for "fittin" in the Green1.

5th is the mockup sittin in place.
 

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DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
PIC's of Sam's Green1 in various stages

First three pictures are of some the battery boxes I fabricated as replacements for the Alpines. I have sold a couple and installed several in my cars including the Green1.

The last PIC is showing an easy way to modify the width of the spare tire holder.
 

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DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
PIC's of Sam's Green1 in various stages

These pictures cover some of the floor pan work where the seat track mount brackets are fitted. The tracks came with the car when I made the purchase from Sam.

Also, the transmission tunnel was beyond repair, requiring fabrication of a "new" tunnel better fitted and allowing much more clearance under the dash/heater/A/C unit I am installing.

I now have more than adequate clearance for the Slave Cylinder connection and the Mutt II Bell Crank Lever. I have included in the tunnel mod a plate nest to the Gas Pedal that allows access to the Slave/Bell crank connection..... works nicely.
 

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DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
PIC's of Sam's Green1 in various stages

First 2 PIC;s are of the floor pans covered in part with Dynamat

Second 2 PIC's are the floor pans covered Dynamat and with 4 coats of brushed on Lizard Skin.

I have not yet trimmed out the edges completely around the seat brackets or completed the sides and firewall nor the upper portion of the dash the area not seen unless you lay on your back or flip the car on a rotisserie. I will get all of it covered because there can be a lot of noise and heat in those areas.

Again, I did my Commodore Blue totally with LizardSkin and Dynamat and it has paid richly with quiteness and comfort:D
 

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DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
PIC's of Sam's Green1 in various stages

Here are some on the trunk area where Dynamat and Lizard Skin is vital to reduction of noise and heat.
 

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DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
PIC's of Sam's Green1 in various stages

The trunk area is not yet finished because I ran out of insulation. And probably your patience in read or looking at this POST.

I had the doors, trunk lid, hood, windshield frame and about any other piece of metal that came off the Green1 chemically dipped to get rid of the accumulated rust.

All body parts chemically dipped makes the metal like new (minus the rust and other foreign matter).

I find it much easier to finish for priming and painting. Especially the fuel tanks and tubes.
 

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Ratical

Donation Time
All looks good. And I agree with the dynamat. On another project. I did the dynamat inside and lizard skin on the outside. Thermal and sound. I will never do another without it. What unit do you source for the EPS?
 

Alpine 1789

SAOCA President
Diamond Level Sponsor
Great progress, Dan. I have two questions for you. First, where did you get your seat tracks? Are you happy with them? And, second, painting Dynamat with Lizard Skin is interesting. I've never heard of doing that before. Can you talk a little about that? Do you know if there is any research on the benefits, especially vs. doing it above and below the way Ratical did? (OK, that is four questions, but only two topics. :))
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Jim, The main reason I did what I did is because I was advised to do so by several Hot Rodder friends.

I did my '67 Comodore Blue the same way: Prepped the metal in most places inside the car with POR 15, applied the Dynamat to the metal (supposedly because it "sticks" better than to the Lizard Skin), then followed with brushing the Lizard Skin (Rather than spraying). I believe I can get a better coating with the brush and not as messy.

There are areas in the Commodore Blue that show up with the bright Dynamat backing if the soft top is up (my mistake) I will eventually revisit that with the Lizard Skin.

I've included 2 PIC's of my '67 Commodore Blue for your viewing pleasure;)

You can see the Dynamat inside the door and up underneath the dash and firewall that I failed to cover with the Lizard Skin (Forgetful of me). I stuck the "Mat" anywhere I could see & reach, even at times where I could only feel.

My Alpine is as quite as my Wife's 4Runner, if not more so.

That is what has been perchance "obsession" with sound & heat control in Sam's Green1 ....

As for the seat mount bracket's, they were in the package deal from Sam. Fabricated by a fellow member here, can't recall His Handle, But have his contact info some where, I'll look.
 

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