Rear wheel cylinder retaining clips

[bmohr]

Not sure how the retaining clips are supposed to work. When I took the rear wheel cylinders off of my blue car, they were held on by only one spring clip and they were very wobbly once shoes were removed, but before the clip was removed. i.e. they weren't going to fall off, but they seemed far from secure.

A few months ago I lost my mind and bought a second Alpine. It is mostly complete but will be a while before I can start working on it so I decided to rob the clips off of it. It uses a different arrangement.

When I ordered my parts from Sunbeam Specialties, they were out of the retaining parts so I'm left with what I have. I've looked in the manual, but honestly can't figure out what is right.

Hopefully my picture will attach and make this make sense. Car #1 is the car I'm working on now and Car #2 is well... the other one.

Appreciate some advice.

 

[junkman]

Ok, the flat clip with two holes goes on the bottom( against the backing plate) the curved one with the little dimples slides over it in the opposite direction and completes the lock, Got it?
Jeff

 

[65beam]

clips

keep in mind that your wheel cylinders need to be able to slide in the backing plate.

 

[bmohr]

Thanks guys. One challenge that I have is that the one side only had one flat clip.

Going thru the parts manual for S1-SIV I see my blue SIV had what was shown in Plate B of Section Q and my green SIV has what's show in Plate A. Well actually the blue car only had 1/3 of the parts shown in Plate B.

Two more questions. 1) The flat clips actually have a bit of curve to them and sort of a recess. I assume the ends of the oblong spring piece fit into the recesses. That means the ends will be pushing into the backing plate and the middle of the oblong piece will in the slot of the rear cylinder. Keeping it against the backing plate but able to slide. Is that right? When getting them off, it was hard to see the arrangement because of the amount of dirt and the disintegrating rubber dust cover.

2) I only have 3 of the 4 flat clips. I'm thinking that I could probably make something close out of a washer of suitable thickness and my bench grinder. Anybody ever do something like that? I'm open for suggestions.

 

[Tom H]

OK, you got me all confused about Blue car, Green Car , # 1 car and # 2 car, Plate A, Plate B

First post and picture indicates that the car you are working on, Car #1 , the blue car, uses the 2 large U shaped clips. But it also indicates that each side had only one of the clips. so I assume picture for car #1 shows both single clips, one from each side and that they are identical. These are the clip style used for brakes described in Plate A. This car needs a mating clip on each side.

Later you say that the Blue car, car #1, the car that you are working on, has clips like shown in Plate B, which are the clips shown as Car #2 in the first photo. So I am confused as to which clips your blue car uses.

I am pretty sure that the clips used depend on the type cylinder used and are not interchangeable from cylinder type to cylinder type. So if you have the self adjusting type cylinders shown in Plate A, you need to use the paired clips. If you have cylinders like Plate B, you need to use the 3 piece clips. And yes, I would guess you could make a replacement piece using the good set as a model.

Tom

 

[mikephillips]

You can replace the earlier style 3 piece clip setup with the later 2 U clips, oesn't hurt anything. I've done that and haven't had any problems for the near 15 years the Tiger has been that way. Only thing you lose is originality points, and with the dust cover in place, who will know..

 

[Tom H]

Thanks Mike, I didn't know that. And do you know or remember if the dual U clips are identical or are they a mating pair. I know they have a dimple and a "nub" that lock them together, but I can't remember if both halves are the same.

Tom

 

[bmohr]

Sorry for the confusion guys. Tom your first statement is correct.

Blue car (#1) has the U shaped clips but only one per side.

Green car (#2) has the 3 piece setup but is missing one piece.

Mike, you replaced the 3 piece with the U shaped clips. Is it safe to assume I can do the opposite? Also when I look at Plate A it looks like there's a 3rd U shaped clip. I think the WSM called it a spacer.

Thanks again guys

 

[bmohr]

Hey guys,

Quick update for those interested. My buddy Lloyd (Faux tgr 66) gave me a heads up that someone was selling a pair of clips on eBay so I got 'em. Probably of more interest to the group is that when I called Sunbeam Specialties the other day, they have restocked so it looks like they are generally available again.

Hoping to be on the road soon.....

 

[DrNo]

I'd like to reopen this discussion. Just attempted to fit a rear wheel cylinder to my S2 and, for the life of me, I could not fit all 3 plates, and had to leave the smallest one (the 'distance piece') out. I've attached a picture from a Triumph forum because it's actually the best picture I've found of the completed setup (it appears that the Triumph TR4 & Alpine S2 share the same design). In this photo, (A) is the spring plate, (B) is the distance piece and (C) is the retaining plate. The end product should be in order A-C-B (from the backplate), although WSM 124 describes fitting them in the order C-A-B.

With the distance piece left out, the cylinder is still a really tight fit so I'm wondering if this a tolerance issue with an aftermarket wheel cylinder?

Does anyone know whether I can safely leave the distance piece off?

Picture credits: the picture originally came from either the British Car Forum (credit Rocky (aka Foura)) or the TR Register (credit Mike Godley).

 

[puff4]

..."aftermarket wheel cylinder"...

You said the magic word. Yeah, I'd suspect the Chinese manufacturer didn't measure and recreate the slot properly. Can you measure it against the original?

 

[Mike O'D]

I had ones from Victoria British that had the same problem. Box claimed they were made in Italy. Ended up using some old new in the box ones from the 80s. Fit properly and still working well.

 

[DrNo]

Thanks for answers. Trouble is, I'm up against it. Have to get this car on its wheels this weekend (long story involving a separation and having to move out). So here's the thing: the cylinders are plenty tight enough against the backplate and are still able to slide up and down. Bearing in mind Rootes moved to a two-plate solution in later models, do we think this will work (for now).

Note: I'm not expecting anyone to put themselves on the line here. I realise we're talking about brakes... dangerous stuff to get wrong. All I really need to know for now is whether anyone else has left that distance piece off and everything's been OK.

I probably could force the distance piece in there, but (a) they'd never come out then, and (b) I don't think the cylinder would move in its slot any more.

 

[puff4]

Get a local machinist to mill the slot to the proper width. It's an easy setup job.

 

[junkman]

I don't recall ever using 3 clips to hold in a wheel cylinder.

 

[DrNo]

Just want to sign this off for future readers. As discussed, these aftermarket wheel cylinders seemed to have a shallower 'neck', which meant the 3 clips wouldn't fit. I left out the 'distance piece' on both sides and have had no issues. The spring & retaining plates hold the wheel cylinder firmly in place, with no play at the back of the plate, while still allowing the cylinder to slide in its slot. Brakes work fine, with no binding.