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Re-installing the front suspension
- Thread starter Alpine 1789
- Start date
Thanks for the reminder, Bob. I hadn't even looked at the calendar. I had a little free time this morning and decided I'd use it to put the bar on. Thanks to help from previous discussions on this process, and my wife for holding one end up while I did the other, I got it on without incident. So, I decided I would drive around the block to see if the alignment was close enough to be able to drive to the repair shop for the inspection and alignment. I started it up for the first time in months and was letting it idle when I suddenly remembered that I had one more part to put back on: the radiator! Oh poop! Fortunately, it was only running for about a minute and the temp gauge hadn't even started to move, so I don't think I did any harm. Still, I wasn't looking forward to getting a second Rock Auto t-shirt for my published repair blunder. (First was for a story I have told here before, about blowing up a friends drum brakes.)
I get back in town Thursday evening, so hopefully I will still be able to take that drive and get it back on the road before the end of the month. SUNI is still iffy due to other challenges, but I at least want to have the option.
I get back in town Thursday evening, so hopefully I will still be able to take that drive and get it back on the road before the end of the month. SUNI is still iffy due to other challenges, but I at least want to have the option.
I just drove the SV for the first time since I pulled the old front end off on April 5th. Woo hoo! I only drove it to and from the repair shop, but it was good to have it back. It is an almost perfect Alpine day in St. Louis and I will take it out for a longer run later. The car has been aligned and inspected, so I good to go.
The alignment answers a question from earlier. The original suspension had two camber shims on one side and three on the other, while the replacement one started out with four and five. I wasn't sure whether the shims were likely to be based on the car or the suspension, but just put two and three on it to start. I know now the answer is neither, as they had to go with none on the right and four on the left. So, rebuilding totally altered the geometry of the suspension. I am attaching their printout from the process. Note that they couldn't get the right side quite exact, but assured me that the .1 degree wouldn't make any difference.
This is a very well-respected shop that I have used before, but of course, they've never done an Alpine before. So, just to be safe, does the printout look right to those of you who know something about alignment? I know it says "Tiger" on it, but they said they worked off the WSM specs I had given them.
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The alignment answers a question from earlier. The original suspension had two camber shims on one side and three on the other, while the replacement one started out with four and five. I wasn't sure whether the shims were likely to be based on the car or the suspension, but just put two and three on it to start. I know now the answer is neither, as they had to go with none on the right and four on the left. So, rebuilding totally altered the geometry of the suspension. I am attaching their printout from the process. Note that they couldn't get the right side quite exact, but assured me that the .1 degree wouldn't make any difference.
This is a very well-respected shop that I have used before, but of course, they've never done an Alpine before. So, just to be safe, does the printout look right to those of you who know something about alignment? I know it says "Tiger" on it, but they said they worked off the WSM specs I had given them.
Jim, all the specs I have seen call for about 1* positive camber. Looks like your front end is slightly negative on one side when no shims are installed. There is nothing the shop can do as adding shims will make it more negative. All they can do is remove shims from the other side to even things out as best they can. My car has the same problem.
Drive it.
Bill
Drive it.
Bill
65beam
Donation Time
suspension
one thing the old guy that works on our cars does is to measure between the shock towers and other points of the crossmember when he rebuilds a front suspension for me. they sometimes get bent and that can throw things off. he has straightened three of mine so far. he also pulled the frame rails on the last two cars. we're fortunate that he can do this and it helps make things right.
one thing the old guy that works on our cars does is to measure between the shock towers and other points of the crossmember when he rebuilds a front suspension for me. they sometimes get bent and that can throw things off. he has straightened three of mine so far. he also pulled the frame rails on the last two cars. we're fortunate that he can do this and it helps make things right.
Thanks, Bill. That is pretty much what the professionals told me.
DanR
Diamond Level Sponsor
I'm curious!!
Jim, your diaghams show a car with different types of shocks than the Alpine SV has does'nt it?
As you said the label says Tiger but would the tiger (the different shocks) and an Alpine be the same?
Don't get the explanation.
Quess I need to study this a bit closer.
DanR
Jim, your diaghams show a car with different types of shocks than the Alpine SV has does'nt it?
As you said the label says Tiger but would the tiger (the different shocks) and an Alpine be the same?
Don't get the explanation.
Quess I need to study this a bit closer.
DanR
I think that diagram is just a stock image they use for all cars. I don't believe it was intended to represent my exact car. I did question them on the "Tiger" label, but they said they double checked against the WSM, so I should be fine. Or at least, as close to fine as I am going to get.
I am trying to figure out if the car rides and handles the same as before, better or worse. I am sure I am paying more attention to it then before, but it feels different, almost like the shocks aren't up to the task any more. Is this possible? One thing I changed besides the suspension was the springs. I had a set of S3 springs laying around and decided to give them a try. I like the slightly lower stance in front, but wonder if that could have affected the shocks. Any thoughts?
I am trying to figure out if the car rides and handles the same as before, better or worse. I am sure I am paying more attention to it then before, but it feels different, almost like the shocks aren't up to the task any more. Is this possible? One thing I changed besides the suspension was the springs. I had a set of S3 springs laying around and decided to give them a try. I like the slightly lower stance in front, but wonder if that could have affected the shocks. Any thoughts?
The first time I got my car aligned, the shop computer did not list Alpine, but list Tiger. Specs for the Tiger were the same as the ones I had for the Alpine.
Aren't the S3 springs stiffer? Would not think that would make the shocks feel weaker. I think that would make the car feel sort of squirrely on bumps and pot holes. You should check tire inflation. It seems all the shops around here inflate tires to the number on the sidewall. It might work on a lot of cars, but not the Alpine. 40 psi makes it bounce all over the road.
Bill
Aren't the S3 springs stiffer? Would not think that would make the shocks feel weaker. I think that would make the car feel sort of squirrely on bumps and pot holes. You should check tire inflation. It seems all the shops around here inflate tires to the number on the sidewall. It might work on a lot of cars, but not the Alpine. 40 psi makes it bounce all over the road.
Bill
I only knew S3 shocks were shorter. I don't recall hearing they were stiffer, too. But that is certainly possible. My shocks are pretty old, although they pass the bounce test. They are vintage Tiger Konis that I bought used and have had on the car for a while. I should probably just replace them and throw them on eBay. They will probably pay for a decent new set of Spax shocks. 
RootesRich
Donation Time
Yes, the S3 springs are a bit stiffer than SV springs to compensate for the shorter length.
I have my front end off the car to rebuild. I'll need to figure out was a WSM is, find one, and read it (I assume). Meanwhile, I have an upper A arm off and was looking at how to rebuild it. Looks like I need to remove and replace the rubber bushes and then swap out the ball joint. I have a shop press, so I'm in good shape there.
I was hesitating because I remember hearing that the pivot assembly needs to be properly positioned when the rubber bushes are installed. From what Tom said above, it looks like it's a simple matter of simply tightening the nuts on the ends of the pivot shaft once the car is assembled and sitting on its wheels.
I also read where someone procured a rebuilt A-arm. I've started looking for a source to compare the prices of parts vs. buying the assembly. Anybody know where to find a rebuilt A-arm assembly?
I'll be reading other posts on the subject and I'll appreciate any advice offered.
Paul
SIV - V6/T5
Paul, WSM's are available on this page. Just click on Tech Data.
Yes, a shop press is a good start, but be careful. Some of the bushes simply cannot be pressed out. On some, you will destroy the arm before the bushes give. I had to cut through them lengthwise with a hacksaw, then push them out. In general, I found that pressing them out is pretty ticklish business. There seems to be more ways that won't work than ways that will. But maybe it was just me.
First I've heard of rebuilt A-arms.
Bill
Yes, a shop press is a good start, but be careful. Some of the bushes simply cannot be pressed out. On some, you will destroy the arm before the bushes give. I had to cut through them lengthwise with a hacksaw, then push them out. In general, I found that pressing them out is pretty ticklish business. There seems to be more ways that won't work than ways that will. But maybe it was just me.
First I've heard of rebuilt A-arms.
Bill
The rebuilt a-arm reference in the "general Chit Chat" section. The link was http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sunbeam-Tiger-Alpine-fresh-A-arms-/281423578801?vxp=mtr
Oneoffive is Randy Willets. I talked to him about something via eBay a few years ago, but don't think I have ever bought anything from him. But he seemed like a really good guy and he does have a great reputation.
As for pressing the bushing out, be careful Paul. My understanding is that it is very easy to ruin the A Arms when doing that. The manual is pretty clear about the recommended process, although I know it can be done without the special tool. You just need to be very careful about how and where they are supported when doing the pressing.
As for pressing the bushing out, be careful Paul. My understanding is that it is very easy to ruin the A Arms when doing that. The manual is pretty clear about the recommended process, although I know it can be done without the special tool. You just need to be very careful about how and where they are supported when doing the pressing.
Paul, the WSM is the WorkShop Manual. Gotta have it. Gotta read it to press bushings out (and IN). You must support each half of the A-Frame separately when pressing. I was able to press mine out without any hacksawing, but it was a bear.
The original style rubber bushings are metalastic. The rubber is bonded to the inner and outer sleeve and the rubber flexes when the car bounces. No sliding of shaft in bushing.That's why you must tighten at neutral stance , with full weight on the suspension. So teh rubber can flex down on bump and flex reverse on rebound. Urethane and other replacement bushings usually have sliding inner sleeves.
Tom
The original style rubber bushings are metalastic. The rubber is bonded to the inner and outer sleeve and the rubber flexes when the car bounces. No sliding of shaft in bushing.That's why you must tighten at neutral stance , with full weight on the suspension. So teh rubber can flex down on bump and flex reverse on rebound. Urethane and other replacement bushings usually have sliding inner sleeves.
Tom
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