Re-installing the front suspension

[DanR]

Hold the big hammer tight on one side and "Bang" hard with the other it may take a good lick or several, but i guarantee it will come loose.

I have thought many-a-time, "I'm going to destroy this thing", but it came loose with out being damaged.

 

[65beam]

suspension

jim,
are you trying to loosen the tie rods or the cross tube that connects the steering box arm and the idler arm on the right frame rail? the cross tube doesn't need removed if you're changing the cross member. if you're trying to disconnect the tie rods use a pickle fork that goes in your impact hammer or go to harbor freight and buy one of the long pickle forks for use with a hammer. the one I bought is about two feet long and gives you room to hit it without hitting the car.

 

[Alpine 1789]

jim,
are you trying to loosen the tie rods or the cross tube that connects the steering box arm and the idler arm on the right frame rail? the cross tube doesn't need removed if you're changing the cross member. if you're trying to disconnect the tie rods use a pickle fork that goes in your impact hammer or go to harbor freight and buy one of the long pickle forks for use with a hammer. the one I bought is about two feet long and gives you room to hit it without hitting the car.

The tie rods. The cross tube came into the discussion when Bill mentioned his method for them, which I adapted. I thought about a pickle fork (any excuse for a new tool is always a good one and there is a Harbor Freight very near me) but wouldn't that trash the boot on the track rod end? The both seem fine, so I wasn't planning on replacing them if I didn't have to.

 

[RootesRich]

I thought about a pickle fork (any excuse for a new tool is always a good one and there is a Harbor Freight very near me) but wouldn't that trash the boot on the track rod end? The both seem fine, so I wasn't planning on replacing them if I didn't have to.

Correct, you will most likely trash the boot with a pickle fork. I use a "tie rod end puller" and carefully position the legs under the boot so they don't tear. You should be able to pick up the appropriate sized puller at a local parts store for less than $20. If not, I'll loan you mine.

 

[65beam]

suspension

jim,
the tools have a flat side and a tapered side. I put the flat side down and the tool acts like a wedge driving the tie rod end down. if a boot rips you can find boots at most parts stores. try the HELP items.

 

[Alpine 1789]

Thanks, Rich and Bob. But, I just got it off! I used a variation on Dan's method. I decided that I need to be sure the full force of the hammer was being transferred to the tie rod end. (Just curious: is "track rod" just British for the American "tie rod"?) So, I got out a sledge hammer and a small floor jack. I put the sledge hammer sideways on the jack and jacked it up until it was resting underneath the steering arm, then a little more so the arm was under pressure. )I probably could have done the same thing with a large bottle jack, but I don't have one of those.) With the arm immobilized, it only took a few solid blows from a much smaller hammer to break it free!

While I was at it, I also removed the radiator. I figured the extra room would make life easier and it was only four bolts now that it was drained and the hoses disconnected. I'm going to watch the basketball game tonight, so hopefully, everything will come off tomorrow night. In the meantime, thinking ahead, I do have three questions:

1. I actually have a set of tie rod ends 'in stock' but they are two different brands. Is this a bad idea?
2. I assume the best place to support the engine is under the oil pan, but I have the aluminum GT pan and don't want to damage it. I am thinking I'll be ok if I just put a bock of wood between the jack and the pan. Any concerns with that?
3. The WSM doesn't say anything about the brake line, but I assume I have to either disconnect it from the brake union or remove it from the clips on the backside of the crossmember. Remembering that I am going to be putting new crossmember in, any recommendations on the best way to handle that?

As always, Thanks. More to follow, I am sure.

 

[DanR]

Jim, OK! Are you removing the crossmember and leaving the engine hanging?

If so, I use a 4x4 Post (or something similar) across the fenders (Front) and strap the engine to the post for support. That way the crossmember can be removed and there is nothing to interfer with removal.

Am I on the right track for what you are doing?

DanR

 

[65beam]

suspension

jim,
if you're putting a rebuilt suspension under the car it would be wise to install new tie rod ends. cost would be maybe 50.00 and everything would be new. one old guy I know says " do it now or do it later ".

 

[Tom H]

OH, so now 3 pages into the thread you tell us your are not just "re-installing" a rebuilt crossmember, but you are also removng the old one!

0) I like the idea to remove the radiator

1) I see no problem mixing brands of tie rod ends

2) I like Dan's idea of using a 4x4 (wood beam, not a vehicle) across the fenders to support teh engine. But I would use a couple threaded rods thru the beam to support the engine. Easy to adjust the engine upward. But a wood block between jack and sump is probably OK

3) I would just disconnect the union. Then when the crossmember is out, remove it and re-install it on the rebuilt one after it is installed on the car. I assume you are putting in new brake hoses.


Tom

 

[Alpine 1789]

Thanks, guys. Dan's method sounds like a good one, basically a variation on the factory special tool. I worry that it might damage the fenders, but I'm sure it is actually safe. Still, I think I'll see if I can get the jack positioned so that it doesn't interfere with the crossmember and go that route if I can. I'll also put the new tie rod ends on; it will never be easier than it is right now! I'm going to transfer the ball joints over from the old suspension; they are relatively new. Same for the hoses.

I'll update this as soon as I have more info, hopefully tonight.

 

[DanR]

OH, 2) I like Dan's idea of using a 4x4 (wood beam, not a vehicle) across the fenders to support teh engine. But I would use a couple threaded rods thru the beam to support the engine. Easy to adjust the engine upward. But a wood block between jack and sump is probably OK Tom

And I especially like Tom H's idea of using the threaded rod thru the 4x4 allowing for adjustment (s).

When I read that! I immediately remembered I have some Eye bolts that are about 12"-15" long and 3//4" dia rod that would really be good for the adjustment (s) up or down for the engine when re-installing.

See Jim, we have solved all your problems

 

[Alpine 1789]

See Jim, we have solved all your problems

Not yet, you haven't. But, you could if you'd put your 4x4 and eye bolts into a suitcase and catch the next flight to St. Louis.

 

[DanR]

Hey guy! Don't tempt me into travelling that way before my scheduled visit to KS and TX.

Frisco & Plano, Tx, then to Pratt and Kansas City, KSbefore heading home will be part of my towns to visit this trip coming. Maybe, just maybe we can meet up.

 

[Alpine 1789]

Just an update; no questions this time! As of about 10pm last night, the front suspension is out and sitting on the garage floor. No problems and no drama. As a suggestion for others, removing the radiator was the smartest thing I did. Not only did it give me more room to work, I can't imagine having been able to unbolt the engine mounts with it in place. There wasn't enough room to get a socket on most of the bolts, so I was left with using an assortment of open ended wrenches, which is time-consuming to begin with, but the front ones would have resulted in multiple skinned knuckles with the rad in place. Well worth the couple of minutes it takes to remove it!

I checked out my rebuilt one when I was done and realized that I hadn't quite finished putting it together. The new lower ball joints are sitting on a shelf, as are the stub axle carriers and the S3 springs. That shouldn't take too long. I also realized I never painted the brake splash guards, so there is a bit of work to be done before I get to reinstall everything.

Which does bring up a question, after all. The stub axles haven't been painted either. The front suspension will be the nicest looking part of the car, but I might as well do it right. Should those be painted too?

 

[Alpine 1789]

The stub axles haven't been painted either. The front suspension will be the nicest looking part of the car, but I might as well do it right. Should those be painted too?

Tonight was the first time in a week that I had a chance to work on the suspension assembly. I am quoting myself, as I would still like to know if I should paint the stub axle. But, I also have two more important questions:

1. Which is the right axle carrier and which is the left? The parts manual shows right and left being part numbers 1229650 and 1229651 starting with VIN B94103419. However, the numbers on one of my axles (I can't make out the other one) are 1990460 152708 JGSB ENBC. The numbers on my old suspension are even harder to read but appear to be similar. The old suspension gives me a clue, as the numbers are cast into the steel so that they face the back of the car, but since the two castings are a little bit different, I would like to be more sure than that. Is there a proper way to tell?
2. My second (third, if you count the paint question) is also a handedness question. The aluminium shims that were on the rebuilt crossmember were numbered 1 and 2, and I am pretty sure 1 was on the right. I have it written down somewhere, but can't find it now. I figured my old suspension would tell me which is which, but the shims on that are numbered 1 and 4. Does anyone know what the numbers designate? The part numbers are the same otherwise. And, if the number is some kind of grading system, do I use the ones that were originally on my newly rebuilt crossmember or the stock one I just removed?

Thanks.

 

[Tom H]

Jim, sure, paint the axle carriers. But not the axles themselves, not the part that goes inside the wheel hub

1) The axle carriers go on whatever side leaves the control arm pointing toward the rear

2) Hmmm. Never noticed any numbers on the wedges. Compare them closely and see if there is any difference. I am guessing that the numbers are simply the mold number they came out of. The WSM has a paragraph or two about these "Castor Control Wedges" and mentions only two types, one type for the Alpine and a quite different type for other Rootes cars.

Tom

 

[Alpine 1789]

Thanks, Tom. I hadn't thought about the control arms. That would have really helped if the control arms were still attached. I hadn't even notice that they weren't. Now, I just need to find them!

 

[DanR]

Mine had a part number on each wedge that started with "1980...." best I recall.

Thought I had entered the data on aWord Doc. But can't find the info at present.

My Metal man made me a couple sets (copies) from the originals from one of my Alpines. Worked out nicely!

 

[Tom H]

Jim, just look at and compare the axles. If the pair are identical, that means they are interchangeable. If they are different then see how the control arms go on, and they will only fit one way. Either way it will be obvious which goes on which side such that the control arm (and caliper) faces the rear.

When I redid my crossmember I had the crossmember, lower A-frames, and brake dust shields powder coated ( being careful to mask all threaded parts and mounting surfaces. Then I painted all other exposed metal with gloss black paint- springs, calipers, upper A-Frames, stub axles, sway bar, etc.

Tom

 

[Alpine 1789]

Tightening lock nuts on upper ball joints

This has been a very slow motion thread, but time to work on the car has been very hard to come by lately. I am now firmly up against my deadline, as the car needs to be inspected this month! I am also close to being able to install the new suspension and start work on a host of new issues, but one thing at a time. Here is the latest:

I am almost finished putting everything back together. I have not torqued anything down yet, but was going to do all of that once the suspension was back on the car when I could do everything at once. All of the nuts and bolts (save the ones I am asking about now) are snug, but not torqued. I am in the process of putting the stub axle carriers back in and right now have a 1/2" threaded rod running through the shock tower to compress the spring and pull the lower A arm up. In theory, all that remains is to tighten the nylock nut that holds the ball joint to the axle carrier. However, the threaded portion of the ball join spins when I apply any kind of torque to the nut. I can not get enough torque to even get the nylon threads to grab. Is there a trick to this?

A couple of data points, in case it help.

1. We did not replace the ball joints when Rocco and I rebuilt the A-arms. They were in really good shape and Rocco couldn't feel any wear in them.
2. I had an extra set of S3 springs and decided to use those to lower the front end a touch. I can't imagine that makes any difference, but thought I'd add it just in case.
3. The suspension is currently sitting on a work table and the lower A-arms are unsupported.
4. I have tried both sides, but have the same problem with each.
5. I have tightened the threaded rod just about as much as I possibly can.

I assume that at some point, friction will hole the tapered portion of the ball joint in place,but I can't seem to get to that point. I can easily thread a non-nylock nut on the threaded portion of the rod, but there would be no way to torque it down, unless I held the pin with a vice grips. It may come to that, but I thought I'd check in with the experts first.

As always, thanks!