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Racing Header ???

Discussion in 'Rootes Racing' started by mototron, Jul 27, 2016.

  1. mototron

    mototron Platinum Level Sponsor

    does anyone make a good fitting Racing header for a 1725 ?
    I have been using a series ll header but would like to
    find something with better flow
    Maybe in the UK ??
    Thanks

    Rocco

    '
     
  2. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    header

    Sunbeam Specialties sells a stainless steel unit that is a copy of the optional competition header that was available from Rootes. The tubes are equal length unlike the standard series 1 and 2.
     
  3. mototron

    mototron Platinum Level Sponsor

    Called sunbeam Spec. ,they said that there header is identical to a stock series 2 with no advantage over stock
     
  4. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    header

    mototron,
    do you notice any difference between the pipes on the left and the ones on the right? the ones on the left are a set of very old unused original series 1 and 2 pipes. the ones on the right are what rick sells and also the same as the originals on two of my harringtons. why were they used on the LeMans instead of the standard units?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
  5. RootesRacer

    RootesRacer Donation Time

    Neither of those headers are equal length, they are what are called tri-y headers.

    Equal length headers would have a single collector where all 4 tubes become 1 (instead of 2 into 1, 2 into 1, 2 into 1).
     
  6. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    header

    thanks for your explanation. the stainless ones on the right are not the same as the originals but they are what rick sells. I would say they're made by falcon.
     
  7. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    still looking...

    So it sounds like aftermarket 4 into 1 headers are NOT readily available?

    I'm going to see a header guy this Thursday about Tiger headers and I plan to talk Alpine headers as well.

    SO, HERE IS a CALL for everyone interested in a set of headers, speak up!

    Let me / us know what you are interested in.

    I'm thinking top shelf would be Stainless steel with a merged collector.

    But mild steel with a lower cost collector may be a starting point.

    Tube sizes are a bit up in the air at this point, but the plan is to make the fixtures with different tubes sizes in mind.

    I'll know more by the end of the month, but don't hesitate to throw your comment in.

    Thanks. :)
     
  8. Jay Laifman

    Jay Laifman Donation Time

    First, the difference between those two versions is simply that one is set up to make room for the larger alternator!

    Second, let me know for the headers. I might be interested. But they ID would have to be large enough for the Holbay head.

    I'd probably rather have steel and get them jet coated than stainless.
     
  9. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    header

    Jay,
    The style you say were made to clear the alternator were used prior to Alpines having an alternator. They were on all of my LeMans. I do have the originals even though one Harrington now has the stainless steel and the current project will use the stainless. My other early Alpines all had the other one. My later series 4 and 5 Alpines had cast iron exhaust manifolds. The series 5 has the alternator. I have had too many problems with JetHot coatings. The 69 exhaust manifold has been recoated but continues to rust. Looks good for a couple years but doesn't last.
     
  10. Jay Laifman

    Jay Laifman Donation Time

    FWIW, I had mine coated by a local shop 20 years ago - in the chrome color. Still in great shape. Sadly, they are not in business anymore (Gold Coast Coatings, Oxnard, CA).

    Also, I have had continuous problems with blown exhaust gaskets. If anyone went to the trouble to do this, I certainly would prefer that rather than four flanges, to have one long/thick piece that is cut out for the pipes to be attached to.
     
  11. RootesRacer

    RootesRacer Donation Time

    Just an FYI, though equal length headers are usually what people buy or consider to be a proper header these days. Tri-y headers however with their shorter runners are usually considered better for higher RPM higher horsepower applications. They dont contribute to low end torque like the long equal length runners due but they do scavenge at higher RPMs rather well since they are paired with the compliment phases exhaust runner.

    As for the alternator debacle, the mini denso alternator is so small, I doubt there is would be any issues putting one in any application that a generator fits on. Plus they are available to 60 amps so unless you need more current then that, the equivalent old school alternator will be twice and large and 4 times as heavy. The famed hitachi alternator is only 45 amps right? Compared to the mini denso it is downright huge.

    Just saying.
     
  12. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    Looking for.....

    .... a sample header to copy.

    I talked to the Header guy, He just suggested I come up with ...well ... everything.

    First a header, then the fixture.

    So let me know if you have a 4 into 1 header you're proud of,

    And want it copied.

    I have been using an early Tri-Y on the "Love Bug" Alpine.

    I did squeeze a Denso Alt in there.

    I ended up inverting the thing to clear the rear cover and B+ stud.

    The Alt is a Suzuki Samurai, as far as I know.

    The one I used has a bolt on rear bracket that I modified and moved to the other side (upper?).

    It JUST fits!..:eek:
     
  13. Five Reviver

    Five Reviver Donation Time

    I was going to get extractors made locally for my new Series V set-up, once engine is re-assembled and installed with new DCOE's. It's Vizard head, flat top pistons, and cam. It's intended for some hillclimbing and modern regularity (and spirited road). Not planning to win anything but I want it to go!
    I haven't yet decided on design.
    I'm in Adelaide, Aus.
    Mototron, did you get any further with your header project?
    David
     
  14. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    I had considered tackling the job of fabricating a 1725 Header for one of my Alpines, but decided upon reusing the 4 into 2 setup I had on the Blue Boy before I converted the 1725 to the V6.

    Still might make a go at it one day just for kicks:)
     
  15. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    DCP_0001.JPG

    A picture of Larry Young's Alpine header.

    The tubes are quite big, but the head was, ...well,...not quite stock...

    DCP_0003.JPG

    BTW, I don't think I would do a direct copy of this, I think the tubes could be closer to equal length. And have more room for the Alt.

    Also, this is a very old pic, Larry sold the car with the header LONG ago.

    DW
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  16. Jay Laifman

    Jay Laifman Donation Time

    Cutting out non-Alpine stuff.

    In researching headers for our race car, someone told me that they now have programs or spreadsheets that you input the details of your engine, and it will tell you the optimum pipe diameters and lengths. Does anyone know about this? How do we get it and use it?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  17. RootesRacer

    RootesRacer Donation Time

    Dayum, whats the compression ratio on that thang?
     
  18. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Dan,

    Is tbat a holbay h120 head machiened beyond the wear bars? Did you have to pocket the tops of the pistons?
     
  19. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    About that head, it was a late Std Alpine Head (Nontube sparkplug), yes, it was milled down well into the side cover bolt holes (welded up).

    I don't know the CR, but I do know during Pressure testing, the gauge hose wanted to stand at attention REAL bad!

    ....With a reading north of 225 psi!

    Later, I found the gauge was unable/didn't want to read much above 225 anyway.

    So, the CR was TO the MOON.

    Larry worked for and knew PEOPLE in the oil production world, so he was able run REAL GOOD Gas.

    Larry had very little head gasket issues considering the BIG CR, but he did have some blown head gaskets.

    DW
     
  20. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Dan,

    Welding up the water jackets and drilling them allows a custom gasket without the thin area that forms a crescent shape in the gasket.. A comom failure point.

    The combustion chamber shape is now very similar to the holbay kidney shape chamber.

    The valves are also nice amd large.. But with that much off the head, and not knowing block height id assume that the pistons were set below deck or pocketed.
     

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