"new" v6

[SIVAllan]

Woohoo!

My "new" 1974 Mustang II v6 engine arrived today.

Now I have a bell housing, an Offy intake and an engine plus a
kit from Jose and fancy valve covers from Ireland .

Next step is to figure out which transmission to use and then find one...

Thanks to Ken for helping with the engine.

 

[Eleven]

I am thinking of going this way eventually. Can you photograph the process from time to time?

 

[DanR]

Allan, The T5 from a '97 Mustang 3.8 V6 with the 1352-238 is what Jose recommended to me.

Had to have the Pilot shaft spud turned down to match an adapter I have had made for the conversion.. Took a while to figure but now have a couple.

Purchased the longer bolts and washers. Had the housing length that holds the input shaft in place cut down to 4.5" and turned the collar turned down also so that it would slide into the MustangII bellhousing.

 

[bulldurham]

Hi Allen, sounds as if you are going to build some competition for the Tiger. It is a fun build w/ a lot of nuances. So, there will be moments of doubt and concern; the main lesson that I learned is that metal can take one hell of a beating and still work really well. I don't advocate sledge hammers to solve fit problems but they can help. Have fun.

 

[gordonra]

Woohoo!

My "new" 1974 Mustang II v6 engine arrived today.

Now I have a bell housing, an Offy intake and an engine plus a
kit from Jose and fancy valve covers from Ireland .

Next step is to figure out which transmission to use and then find one...

Thanks to Ken for helping with the engine.

Hi Allen,

The T5 from the 3,8 v6 Mustang (-238) is a popular one, but there is a different application that will give you slightly better results. I believe the application is from a 1994 and later T5 from the V8 Mustang because it has slightly higher ratios to reduce the engine rpm a bit all through the gear range.
It does take an adapter for the pilot bearing, but it will be different than what the 238 uses. Jose has recommended Jeff Kelley for this adapter for many years. This is the link to Jeff page:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kelley-Precision-Products/175059625855144

If in doubt about which one to use and why, Jose has extensive knowledge of the various models.

Rich

 

[DanR]

WHich to use?

In the last year and a half I purchased two of the "238's" for my cars because Jose recommended them to me.

Is there a change of mind here?

The adapter was not mentioned as being required for them. Then later I was told that it was best to have the adapter for the input shaft on both early and late T5's.

DanR

 

[SIVAllan]

The 238 sounds good to me.

My main concern is to avoid a 1st gear that is too tall, and to have a 5th gear suitable for modern highway speeds at a reasonable to low RPM.

It would be interesting to compare the 238's gearing to the 5 speed v8 transmission's gearing to put a face on the term "slightly higher ratios."

If anybody has that data, please post it. Otherwise it's on my "to do" list.

I'll try to take some pictures from time to time and post them.

Thx for the information

I'm excited to get started, finally. Over a year has passed since I brought home the S1.

 

[gordonra]

I was incorrect in my earlier post about the application years.

Jose has for many years, and in numerous posts in the Modified section of this forum, recommended the V8 version as the best application due to the higher ratio, however the V6 version is less likely to be abused.


If you refer to this site:

http://v6alpine.blogspot.com/p/sunbeam-alpine-ford-28l-conversion.html

You will see that it is the earlier version of the V8 T5 which has the higher ratios:

A T5 Transmission from a Ford Mustang - The preferred transmission is from behind the 1986 to 1993 5.0L V8 Mustang, due to slightly higher gear ratios for the V6; However the 1994 and later versions of the transmission will yield good results. (see above section on T5 selection).

Later versions of the T5 are readily available and are likely to have fewer miles on them. The V6 versions may not have seen hard abuse that a V8 version could dish out. In either case it would be advisable to have your transmission service checked prior to installation.

Selecting your transmission:
◾Mustang 1986 to 1993 V8 World Class
◾This version has slightly higher gear ratios - Better for the 2.8L torque range.
◾Has a shorter input shaft - Does not require modification for the pilot bearing, but does require the use a pilot bearing adapter.
◾Mustang 1994 to present
◾V6 versions have slightly lower gear ratios than the V8.
◾Has longer input shaft which requires modification for pilot bearing

 

[gordonra]

Regarding the gearing being too tall...

You can easily find the ratios online, but I don't have a link for it handy.

I have the 238 as do several others in my area.

Kelly is running 3.7 ratio on his 3rd member, but as far as I know most are running 3.89.

The slightly taller ratio of the V8 T5 would be better. First gear is a is a bit low. There would be no concern in it being to tall.

Kelly will concur with this, I'm sure.

Rich

The 238 sounds good to me.

My main concern is to avoid a 1st gear that is too tall, and to have a 5th gear suitable for modern highway speeds at a reasonable to low RPM.

It would be interesting to compare the 238's gearing to the 5 speed v8 transmission's gearing to put a face on the term "slightly higher ratios."

If anybody has that data, please post it. Otherwise it's on my "to do" list.

I'll try to take some pictures from time to time and post them.

Thx for the information

I'm excited to get started, finally. Over a year has passed since I brought home the S1.

 

[kmathis]

Hi,

The V8 version of the T5 has a 2.95 first gear ratio, the V6 version has a 3.35 ratio.

I chose the 3.35 because I am using a 3.70 rear axle, if I had a stock rear axle, (which mine was a 4.22) I would have chosen the V8 version with the 2.95 first gear.

Have fun on your project Allen, I never had more fun on a project, like the V6 conversion.

 

[Series6]

Somewhere in my laptop I have a spreadsheet I used to determine the combination I'm using. You input the 5 transmission ratios, the axle ratio and tire revs per mile. In the last box you input engine rpm and it kicks out road speed in each gear at that engine speed.

You can then do a comparison between variables of choice.

 

[260Alpine]

I'll clear up some confusion on the Ford T5. The 83 and 84 NWC has 2.95 first with .63 or .73 overdrive fifth. The aftermarket Ford Racing T5Z has 2.95 first and .63 overdrive fifth. All other V8 and V6 has the 3.35 first. The 94 through 97 V6 has the .72 overdrive 5th. All others have .68 overdrive 5th. All 83-93 V8 have the shorter input shaft. 94 and newer V6 and V8 have the longer input shaft. What little differences in 2nd and 3rd are miniscule.

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Guys,

The reason I prefer the ´86-´93 5.0 V8 T5, is that first gear isn´t so low that you almost can start in second gear. With the 3.89´s or 4.22´s of the stock Alpine, it works better, because it doesn´t have a big jump between first and second. The ratios are better suited for performance driving, plus, with a low set of rear gears, you get a reasonable cruise at 65-70 mph at about 3,000 rpm. and still get plenty of acceleration in first.

I want to apologize to all the folks that took my advice before when we went with the ´94-´04 V6 T5. I had never used one before so I wasn´t aware that first gear in these transmissions is pretty low too, with the same jump to second gear. I should have never endorsed it, since I had no personal experience using one. it wasn´t until later, when some of my customers said it had a low first gear, that I realized it. The V6 T5 will still work fine for everyone who has one, but my personal preference is the V8 T5.

If you use the V8 T5, you´ll need to use a set of at least 3.89´s, and preferably a set of 4.22´s.

Any of the T5´s will work OK, including the four cylinder version, so don´t panic if you don´t have a V8 T5.

Jose

 

[gordonra]

Thanks for chiming in Jose.

The data listed on this site (Assuming Factory T5's):

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/349.shtml

Indicates that first gear is the same for the V8's as it is for the V6's, but 5th gear is 0.68 vs 0.73.

I've seen other charts which conflict with this information.

My 3.89 rear with the -238 works great, and I have no complaints with it at all. I would do it again without question because I am running 3000 rpm at 73 mph, and while first is a bit low, it's not a big deal. I'm running 195-60x14 tires.

Plugging in .68 for a final in my calculator, the V8 version would give me 78 mph at 3000 rpm.

If I was going to build another V6 (which is a good possibility) I'd probably look for the V8 tranny, but if a good -238 came up for the right price, I'd go with it.


Rich

Hi Guys,

The reason I prefer the ´86-´93 5.0 V8 T5, is that first gear isn´t so low that you almost can start in second gear. With the 3.89´s or 4.22´s of the stock Alpine, it works better, because it doesn´t have a big jump between first and second. The ratios are better suited for performance driving, plus, with a low set of rear gears, you get a reasonable cruise at 65-70 mph at about 3,000 rpm. and still get plenty of acceleration in first.

I want to apologize to all the folks that took my advice before when we went with the ´94-´04 V6 T5. I had never used one before so I wasn´t aware that first gear in these transmissions is pretty low too, with the same jump to second gear. I should have never endorsed it, since I had no personal experience using one. it wasn´t until later, when some of my customers said it had a low first gear, that I realized it. The V6 T5 will still work fine for everyone who has one, but my personal preference is the V8 T5.

If you use the V8 T5, you´ll need to use a set of at least 3.89´s, and preferably a set of 4.22´s.

Any of the T5´s will work OK, including the four cylinder version, so don´t panic if you don´t have a V8 T5.

Jose

 

[260Alpine]

What I meant by not much difference in 2nd and 3rd ratios. These are factory 2nd ratios for the V6 and 5.0 V8 T5: 1.93/1.94/1.99. 3rd ratios: 1.29/1.33/1.34. I don't think I would notice the difference. Multiply your 1st gear by rear ratio. Ideally should be around 12 for 4 cyl and V6 and around 11 for small V8. 2.95 first X 3.89 rear=11.48 pretty good! 3.35 X 3.89=13, a little low. the 3.35 is good with a 3.45 rear =11.56.