New to Alpines and in need of a clutch

[altered]

Hi there, I am a complete newb to the Sunbeam world. I always wanted one growing up and am finally at a place in my life where I could get one.
So..... I found a 67 Alpine, according to the seller it was repainted in 1990, motor was rebuilt 12K miles ago. New top. It seems to all be there. Runs well after a little carb setup. The clutch has some problems though. With the engine running I push on the clutch and the motor slows a bit and it sounds like the clutch or bearing is squealing. Any recommendations on what parts I should buy and who I should get them from. Is there a complete clutch kit available.
Thanks in advance. Great site BTW.
Trevor.

 

[Stephen]

Welcome Trevor cut and paste this site for info
Sunbeam Alpine Series 5
Also check this web site Victoria British for parts

 

[Bill Blue]

It is possible your problem is the crankshaft thrust bearing. They wear, allowing the crankshaft to move, putting a bind on all the reciprocating parts and causing the engine to slow. With the engine not running, pry on the crank pulley. If there is any discernible forward/aft movement, that is the problem. If there is wear, it will not take a lot pressure to move the crank. If there is movement, do not drive the car any further as you risk junking the engine. If there is no movement, odds are the problem is the throwout bearing. The screeching tends to make me think that is indeed your problem, but a bad thrust bearing can cause complete engine failure and several owners have experienced the problem, so please check it out.

Bill

 

[jumpinjan]

Its normal for the engine idle speed to drop when the clutch is depressed. However, the squeeling noise is not right and I'm not sure why. There's a carbon ring bearing, and I haven't heard one do that. I'm wondering if someone installed a roller bearing style, from an MGB?
Jan

 

[altered]

Well I got under there and had another look. Looking through the hole in the housing where the lever goes in from the clutch slave, I can see that the lever holding the throwout bearing can move back and forth without the pressure plate moving like it's all stuck in? I hope that description makes sense. I tried revving the engine a bit with the pedal in and out in hopes of it releasing. No luck. Is there a chance that it is just rusted to the flywheel or would there be something broken in there?

Thanks, Trevor.

 

[AlsPine]

jumpinjan could be right about you having a roller bearing. If the carbon bearing was worn all the way down, it could make noise also.
Does the clutch seem to work ok? no slipping under load?
It would stand to reason if the engine was rebuilt 12k miles ago, the clutch should have been freshened up also.
If you press lightly on the clutch petal to engage the throw out bearing, does it make noise, or is it when you apply full pressure to disengage the clutch?
I could be wrong, but if the thrust bearing was bad you would get more than a squeal. Most likely you would hear a grinding noise.
Bottom line is that you might just have to pull the transmission to check the clutch setup to see if the bearing is the cause and determine if the clutch disk, pressure plate and throw out barring was replaced. If you do this, be sure to check the pilot bearing in the rear of the crank shaft for wear as if it has too much clearance, it could cause failure of the input shaft bearing of the transmission.
Another good source of parts is Sunbeam Specialties in California.
Give them a call and they will send you their current catalog. There Phone # is 408-371-1642. All they sell is Sunbeam parts.
Good luck, and let us know what you find.

 

[altered]

As far as driving under load, I really don't know as I haven't driven more than a 1/4 mile or so. Seemed OK, didn't slip. When I bought the car the owner thought the MC or CS needed bleeding. I guess I forgot to mention that I can't put it in gear with the engine running as the clutch won't disengage. Yes it makes noise when I step on the clutch lightly and less noise fully depressed, no noise with the clutch pedal released.

 

[AlsPine]

When I revived my '67 Alpine, the clutch disk was stuck to the pressure plate and flywheel. When I pressed hard on the clutch petal, the clutch disk broke free of the pressure plate, but was stuck on the flywheel. Everything that I did to try to free the disk didn't work. So finally, out of desperation I drilled a 1" hole in the bell housing and using a screw driver with the blade ground down to a knife edge was able to, with a friend holding down the clutch petal, pry the disk free. Had to turn the engine around about 180 degrees at a time to work my way around the clutch disk.
This saved me from having to pull the transmission.
I patched the small hole in the bell housing.

 

[AlsPine]

Sounds like you have the same problem, the disk is stuck on ether the pressure plate, or the flywheel.

 

[Tom H]

I guess I forgot to mention that I can't put it in gear with the engine running as the clutch won't disengage.

Yes, that is a significant issue!!

And it is a common problem for Alpines that have not been run for a while. It's likely the disk is rusted / bonded to the flywheel.

Once you have verified that the thrust washers are not overly worn using Bill's technique, you can usually break the disk loose by putting the car on the street where it is clear to drive
1) Start the car and get it warmed up.
2) shut it off , put it in gear.
3) start it up in gear ( I assume you have already done this or you would not have driven it the 1/4 mile)
4) continue to drive it with the clutch fully depressed.

5) vary the throttle and /or brake to free up the clutch

Tom

 

[altered]

Thanks for all of the input. I will give it a shot on the street and see what happens, after checking the thrust washers.
I will let you know how I make out.
Trevor.

 

[AlsPine]

I tried all of that and more before I resorted to prying the disk off.
I even tried jacking up the rear of the car and with the transmission in gear, ran the speed up to 60 MPH, then pressed in the clutch and slammed on the brakes, no help. tried forward then reverse, back and forth. Just wouldn't break free.
The surface tension of the disk to the pressure plate is just too strong to brake free by a twisting motion parallel to the two surfaces. Too much of a chance of breaking something in the engine or transmission also.
Save your time, and avoid breaking something and just go for prying it free.

 

[altered]

Good point. So at the end of the day was drilling a hole a better approach over pulling it apart?

 

[RootesRich]

Also check this web site Victoria British for parts

There's much better sources for parts than VB. In North America call Sunbeam Specialties and Classic Sunbeam first. They're Sunbeam parts specialists and can answer technical questions over the phone where as VB can't.

Additionally, Sunbeam Specialties and Classic Sunbeam's parts fit 99% of the time where as VB's don't always and their shipping prices can be outrageous.

 

[AlsPine]

altered,
Yes, in the long run, it was the quickest and easiest way to get it loose.
I pulled off the front splash cover and measured back to the flywheel disk surface from the edge of the front of the bell housing, marked the bell housing and drilled my hole at about the 5 o'clock Position. Used a hole saw. Soft aluminum drills easy.
You will need a sharp edge tool to go between the disk and the flywheel. I sharpened a screwdriver tip on a grinder. Keep it cool so it doesn't loose its temper. Then carefully start the blade between the disk and the pressure plate. Once the edge bites in, tap the screw driver with a hammer until you get it in about 3/8's of an inch. most likely the disk won't pop off at this point. Rotate the engine to move your location about 6" or so, and repeat pushing the wedge in a little farther. Mine started breaking loose at the 3rd try, but not all the way around. Just keep going and at some point it will come completely loose.
After that, I started up the engine and dragged the clutch a bit to clean up the surface.
Everything has worked fine ever sense.
Good luck

 

[altered]

I think I will give that a shot. What did you use for the repair of the hole?

Thanks, Trevor.

 

[AlsPine]

Went to the hardware store and got a 1" pipe plug which is a rubber plug that has a nut that you tighten and expands the rubber. seals the hole just fine, and easier than anything else that I could think of. Keep it shallow so it doesn't rub on the flywheel.
Drilling & taping the bell housing then screwing a plate down with a gasket will work fine also.

 

[tony perrett]

A good method of freeing a stuck clutch is to warm to engine, depress the clutch pedal in neutral gear and hold the engine revs at about 4,000 RPM for 20-30 seconds. Clutch assemblies are seldom truly balanced and the centrifugal force is usually sufficient to free the plate from the flywheel.

 

[AlsPine]

Hi Tony,
I tried that method also.
But after 25 years of storage, the disk was really stuck to the pressure plate.
Even when I pried the disk off, it took a lot of prying force to break it free.
I had to cut down a putty knife to fit in the hole and shove it all the way in to get the disk to separate,

(Sorry altered, forgot to mention that, It's been a long time sense I did this)

I shot oil in the cylinders when I parked it, so had no problems when I prepped the engine for start up.

Altered didn't say how long his Alpine has been sitting, but that might work for him if it hasn't been sitting too long.

 

[altered]

AlsPine, I am going to try that putty knife, I drill a hole last night wasn't able to get loose. The putty knife makes sense.

The car hadn't been driven in 6 years.

Tony, I tried that method. No go.

I am off to try the putty knife. I will report back soon.

Thanks for the help.

Trevor.