New to Alpine

[Ron67Alpine]

Hi all, I just bought this Alpine(http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/895692583.html).

I've just spent the past couple of days getting to know it.
It's body is solid w/just surface rust, although there is some through rust in the spare tire well. Both brake/clutch master cylinders are frozen, total pain in the A$$ getting to the interior bolts and that slotted washer that holds the spring was a nice little thought experiment. BTW I found out about that slotted washer by doing a search of the forum, thanks already. I've recently put a couple of classic bikes together (KZ750, XS750 & BMWR90) so thought it was time to try my hand @ some old British tech. I used to keep my old 60's/70's era junkers together and running but looking @ the strange hydraulic configurations and carb linkages I'm gonna really need some help getting the "Zen of British tech" thing down.
Most of the parts to finish up the body part of the restore are there as well as a new top. The sellers were not sure if it had had any engine work done, but I found some old connecting rods and pistons in the parts boxes so am hoping the engine works, it will hand turn. I tried to jump some power through the solenoid and thought I got the starter spinning, for a couple of seconds, but it didn't engage, but then stopped and I couldn't get anything out of it.
So that is the story
Ron

 

[TulsaAlpine]

Welcome Ron

From you description sounds like you have a real basket case pieced out Alpine, but not to worry many here have on this forum have managed to piece them back together and "Get them back on the Road". For me the best advice was to ditch the Zenith carb well mine was actually a solex and get a weber, but on the flip side we have our Zenith fans that love keeping them going. As you get into the restoration lots of choices will have to be made first one keeping it stock or modifying it, this will pick which group of forum members you get questions answered from for we seem to be a Alpine Club with two parties, stock (purist) or modified (extreme V6 dark side)! I myself am more of a stock (original motor) but with modifications to just get the rusted Alpine back to driving condition, mods were made because it was cheaper then going back to stock. Just don't give up took 10 years before mine was done, most of those was sitting in the garage the actual work took 3 years to complete restoration. Side-note the first thing that blew up after the restoration was the starter, my restoration guys decided that it spun, started the car so stuck it back on, no new bushings! well I started the car and it stuck, smoked the sucker, got my wits back and pulled the battery cable. It actually worked after that but replaced it and good to go! Hundred dollars on master-card for a new starter, no more smoking starter, priceless!

Donna

 

[Nickodell]

Side-note the first thing that blew up after the restoration was the starter, my restoration guys decided that it spun, started the car so stuck it back on, no new bushings! well I started the car and it stuck, smoked the sucker, got my wits back and pulled the battery cable. It actually worked after that but replaced it and good to go! Hundred dollars on master-card for a new starter, no more smoking starter, priceless!

Donna

And if you'd been away from home and with no tools, it might have been the entire car that smoked. BATTERY MASTER SWITCH!

 

[Ron67Alpine]

Thanks for the replies and welcome, guys.
I got into the engine compartment today and washed a lot of the 10yrs of accumulated dirt and grime out of it and I think I have a better idea of what I have. I really do think this is a done by spring project. The engine appears to have been out "recently" paint looks decent, "new valve cover gasket" and there are new motor mounts. It seems that @ one time someone had an electronic ignition, as there is an EI box on the firewall but there are points under the cap. The clutch master cylinder is free, but the brake MC is frozen solid. The starter as well as the clutch slave cylinder looks to be a mother to remove, can it be done w/o dropping the exhaust? The parts boxes are mostly all the trim that has been removed and it has already been primed but I'm sure it will have to be reprimed before paint. My plan is to get it running, redo the interior, get it painted and the new top installed, so I doubt I'll be into heavy mods and like you, Mike, any mods will be in the name of expediency, and will not be an authentic "restore". I'll make do w/the stromburgs, a weber @$500+ is not anywhere in the budget. My wife is thinking of killing me already. I've been looking @ a modern aftermarket starter, but will try to rebuild what I have, or like you, Donna, get a rebuilt Lucas. I'll be going on vacation on Saturday (St Thomas) so probably won't be able to do much until I get back.
Here's a few pics from Photobucket:

 

[Ron67Alpine]

 

[Ron67Alpine]

 

[Ron67Alpine]

And if you'd been away from home and with no tools, it might have been the entire car that smoked. BATTERY MASTER SWITCH!

UMMMMM...isn't that what fuses are for???

 

[Chuck Ingram]

UMMMMM...isn't that what fuses are for???

The starter is not fused so once it is engaged it can keep on a turning if the solenoid is stuck

 

[Ron67Alpine]

oops, sorry, double post

 

[Ron67Alpine]

The starter is not fused so once it is engaged it can keep on a turning if the solenoid is stuck

Dang, is this a common problem w/these cars...electrical overloads and fires? What do you use, a 40amp switch on the dash or under the hood?

 

[Nickodell]

The starter stuck in the same way on my son's Plymouth Volare (first car) and as he was miles from home and not near any garage all he could do was watch as the starter, primary cable and, finally, battery burned up. He did have the presence of mind to run to the nearest house and come back with a bucket of water in case the thing caught fire, and have the householder call the fire department.

Scared the hell out of him, but apart from a new starter, solenoid, primary cable, battery, grommets etc. no further damage. I did tell him that if it happened again to hit the solenoid with the wheel wrench as this would probably cause it to pop out again.

I know, I know; battery master switches are a hobby horse of mine. If you think they are unnecessary - on cars from 41 to 49 years old with brittle wiring insulation - talk to the forum member who stood and watched his Pride and Joy burn up at the roadside because of a simple wiring short (in a headlight wire; not fused) and no wrench to remove the battery lead.

 

[TulsaAlpine]

Good rule with Alpine

Always carry a few tools, crescent wrench at least, pliers, Philip's and regular screw driver a must. Those plastic nylon ties work much better then hay bail wire now for any muffler or hot spots you will need a old coat hanger or bailing wire. Don't forget the duct tape for anything that moves and is not suppose to, this works for roof repair also and WD-40 for all the things that are suppose to move and don't. Don't worry all Alpines have a big boot to hold the tool box and lots of extra oil.

Donna

 

[Bill Blue]

I found that a cheapo battery cable terminal works nicely as a fuseable link. While working on the car, I dropped a 9/16" combination wrench. The open end caught on the battery lead at the starter solenoid, the other end fell to ground. Sparks flew. As stated, the terminal was a cheap one with a minimum amount of lead. It promptly melted, nothing else was hurt. The wrench had a slight electrical burn on it. I cleaned out my undies, went to the auto parts store and made sure I did not get a heavy duty terminal.

For all you guys trying to envision how this could happen, it was on a Ford starter. The short was direct to the battery, the starter never engaged.

Bill

 

[Ron67Alpine]

...I know, I know; battery master switches are a hobby horse of mine. If you think they are unnecessary - on cars from 41 to 49 years old with brittle wiring insulation - talk to the forum member who stood and watched his Prise and Joy burn up at the roadside because of a simple wiring short (in a headlight wire; not fused) and no wrench to remove the battery lead.

I'm not doubting you, nick, I'm just wondering where you would mount such a switch. My image of a cutoff switch is on the lines of a boat battery switch, which could only go in the engine compartment, somewhere

 

[Ron67Alpine]

Always carry a few tools, crescent wrench at least, pliers, Philip's and regular screw driver a must. Those plastic nylon ties work much better then hay bail wire now for any muffler or hot spots you will need a old coat hanger or bailing wire. Don't forget the duct tape for anything that moves and is not suppose to, this works for roof repair also and WD-40 for all the things that are suppose to move and don't. Don't worry all Alpines have a big boot to hold the tool box and lots of extra oil.

Donna

So, if I understand you correctly, Donna, I've bought an English Opel. Opels I'm familiar with Nice thing about an Opel is you can do a complete body switch in an afternoon.
Sorry, Donna, I had to remove one of your smilies, in order to get this reply posted.

 

[Ron67Alpine]

... But it's no more fireprone than any other car. You do need to remember you're dealing, in stock condition, with 60's technology that wasn't designed to do all the things your modern car does. And being 40+ years old, there may be a need for clean connections, replacing components, and so on.

That's good to hear, Mike. I'm pretty familiar w/60's tech, first car was a Dodge Dart, and second was an Opel of various body types and years, and kept them running for years...first new car was a 78 Subaru. One of the reasons I've bought this car, is because it's much simpler tech than the modern cars. About the only thing I can do on my Cherokee is plugs, brakes and oil, can't even do that much on my wife's Mitsubishi and kind of missed tinkering.
With all the acorns and nut shells I've found in the engine compartment, I haven't seen any gnawed wires and only 1 rat skeleton. Other than ignition wiring I have a long way to go before I have to worry about that system. When that happens I'll be going over continuity very carefully, cleaning terminals and coating w/ dielectric grease. As mentioned above, I have recently put together 3 70's/80's vintage motorcycles and have learned the perils of 30+ yo wiring.

 

[Ron67Alpine]

I found that a cheapo battery cable terminal works nicely as a fuseable link. ...
Bill

Interesting idea, Bill. I always go w/more durability never thought that cheap could be useful, I'll keep it in mind. Usually cheap electrical= electrical fire

 

[Series6]

Cut off switch

I'm not doubting you, nick, I'm just wondering where you would mount such a switch. My image of a cutoff switch is on the lines of a boat battery switch, which could only go in the engine compartment, somewhere

Mine is located behind the Driver's seat. PM me with your e-mail address and I can send you a picture if you'd like.

 

[Bill Blue]

If you decide to go for a battery mounted disconnect, keep that in mind when you shop for a battery. I have two switches, but my battery is too tall and they contact the battery lid. When this battery is replaced, I'll get a shorter one. When I bought this battery, I wanted the biggest one I could find to keep the battery from rattling around in its well. That turned out to be a very tall (and good) group 24. I know the first liar does not have a chance, but this battery sat in the car for over a year and started the engine without any sort of recharge. Hate to get rid of such a good battery.

Bill

 

[TulsaAlpine]

Yep that sums it up!

So, if I understand you correctly, Donna, I've bought an English Opel. Opels I'm familiar with Nice thing about an Opel is you can do a complete body switch in an afternoon.

Well actually it took the crew at Invasion 07, 12 hours or overnight to swap out the engine and tyranny in an Alpine. Just a basic car No Onstar, No computer controlling the emissions and fuel injectors none of that pollution junk. All the doors open with a mechanical lever, no pneumatic buttons to push, and a real key to start the Alpine no button to push. I would invest in some good hand cleaner at this point seems you open the bonnet and your elbow deep in black grease and oil in about 1 minute.
To bad the wife is not wanting to join in the fun, nothing wrong with gear head women, she can wear rubber gloves to protect those manicured nails. I have the opposite family, I have to drag the husband out to the garage to help
I have a new Opel, well the American version Saturn Sky Redline, thank you GM for a 3-year warranty and that 100,000 mile motor and tyranny coverage so many electronics on the car amazing. Sky throws a code and I push On-Star and they tell me what is wrong and if I need to pull over and send a tow truck, good thing since I would not have a clue what to do.
Alpine - well you know the car well if the linkage from the gas pedal pops off while driving to a show and you coast off to the side of the road get out your plastic tie link it back and Wahoo you off, on to the show, maybe no one will notice the plastic tie at the show.

Donna