Mikeflbmer
Bronze Level Sponsor
http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/pts/5959006537.html
They have several and say new old stock
They have several and say new old stock
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New 3.0 Ford V6 ...will this fit in an Alpine?
- Thread starter Mikeflbmer
- Start date
I would not bother to find out. It seems Ford never used this engine a USA car. No way to win on this situation. Even if it "fits" you loose. An industrial engine in a sports car is not a highly sought after combination.
Bill
DanR
Diamond Level Sponsor
While I like to tackle the impossible....
and have at times in my life, I believe I'd pass on this one.
I like the 2.8 V6 Mustang II engines and have several. My Commodore Blue runs very nicely. Others in work at present are the Green1 and the Red GT with the 4.0 V6 OHV out of a '94 Ford.
I must say the 2.8 is tight but fits nicely. The 4.0 is tight and is sitting very nicely too! I designed straightback headers for both type engines.
I must tackle the fuel system on the 4.0 before I can go any farther. Just haven't had time so far to do more because of other pressing obligations.
Love the idea of the 2.8 but love even more the 4.0.
Again I'd stay away as Mr Bill has stated! Go the 2.8 if you want something simple yet nicely done.
Am I selling you on my stuff yet? Best deal in town
Best of wishes to what ever you go for,
and have at times in my life, I believe I'd pass on this one.
I like the 2.8 V6 Mustang II engines and have several. My Commodore Blue runs very nicely. Others in work at present are the Green1 and the Red GT with the 4.0 V6 OHV out of a '94 Ford.
I must say the 2.8 is tight but fits nicely. The 4.0 is tight and is sitting very nicely too! I designed straightback headers for both type engines.
I must tackle the fuel system on the 4.0 before I can go any farther. Just haven't had time so far to do more because of other pressing obligations.
Love the idea of the 2.8 but love even more the 4.0.
Again I'd stay away as Mr Bill has stated! Go the 2.8 if you want something simple yet nicely done.
Am I selling you on my stuff yet? Best deal in town
Best of wishes to what ever you go for,
alpine_64
Donation Time
The Essex work .. guys here in Australia used them in alpines in the 70's and I know there are UK people with them too... The Essex was available in sports spec in the Capri... Rocker covers on these don't look like industrial spec....
That said the exhaust ports in the Essex is not as good as the cologne especially for all alpine so headers are not as nice... But interesting to find NOS motor setup!
That said the exhaust ports in the Essex is not as good as the cologne especially for all alpine so headers are not as nice... But interesting to find NOS motor setup!
DanR
Diamond Level Sponsor
Michael, I have read a bit on the Essex and the relation to the Cologne recognizing that they are widely used.
But from what I saw in the PIC of this specific one impressed upon me as strictly industrial due to the design of the intake manifold.
The very very small "hole" that appeared to be the intake for fuel sure fixed my idea of "this" engine being built for industrial/commercial interest.
What "other" industrial/commercial components are installed that would have to be changed out to make it Sporty for the Alpine application is unknown.
TEAM Blitz builds the 2.8 V6 to new standards for around $1500.00 USD and it has the correct heads for installation of the currently available Headers.
DanR
But from what I saw in the PIC of this specific one impressed upon me as strictly industrial due to the design of the intake manifold.
The very very small "hole" that appeared to be the intake for fuel sure fixed my idea of "this" engine being built for industrial/commercial interest.
What "other" industrial/commercial components are installed that would have to be changed out to make it Sporty for the Alpine application is unknown.
TEAM Blitz builds the 2.8 V6 to new standards for around $1500.00 USD and it has the correct heads for installation of the currently available Headers.
DanR
Club member here in NZ used the Essex motor in the mid 70's, bored it out and used Chev 283 pistons, mated to an Alfa 5 spd. As already stated the header ports are a bit difficult to negotiate, if using this engine I would change the steering to rack and pinion using MGB arms & Midget rack etc. This conversion was unknown to most back then but so easy now.
alpine_64
Donation Time
Dan,
I think he meant cleaning the steering box with headers is so easy now due to people using rack conversions... But you would still need a shaft.. I think that's more work.
The ones done in Australia I've seen used the Essex, made their own headers to sort the clearance with the alpine steering and used the ford gearbox.
I know the Essex has been used often in the UK .. not sure if anyone did a kit or people just made their own.
I think he meant cleaning the steering box with headers is so easy now due to people using rack conversions... But you would still need a shaft.. I think that's more work.
The ones done in Australia I've seen used the Essex, made their own headers to sort the clearance with the alpine steering and used the ford gearbox.
I know the Essex has been used often in the UK .. not sure if anyone did a kit or people just made their own.
RootesRacer
Donation Time
The essex V6 is widely acclaimed at least in England.
This particular model would be just sort of useless in a car due to the 1bbl intake and camshaft that matches the use case.
I would imagine it would output less HP than the rootes 1500 though it would be a torque monster at 2000rpm.
This particular model would be just sort of useless in a car due to the 1bbl intake and camshaft that matches the use case.
I would imagine it would output less HP than the rootes 1500 though it would be a torque monster at 2000rpm.
Dan
yes I meant that converting the steering on an Alpine to R&P using MGB arms etc is so easy and requires no casting and machining of arms etc. We didn't know about this back in the 70's. It's also easier for you LHD guys if converting to a V8 that you don't have the problem of the water pump elbow around the rack pinion we have on RHD cars.
The V6 motor under discussion appears to be the Granada version of the Essex that was in the UK Capri and had some differences from the V6 in the MK4 Ford Zephyr, namely the sump bowl is at the rear, the dip stick is on the LH side and the front cover is different to the std Essex V6, pic circa 1977 attached showing the cover on the bench vice in the top lh corner.
I drove this yellow V6 Alpine and it drove front heavy in my view, owner admits as much even today and agrees R&P steering and moving the motor back a tad ala Tiger would've been better.
Early Essex motors had a tendency to shear the end off the oil pump drive as it was very long also the gen/alternator position was changed from left side to right side ,the early Essex ran an off-motor cooling fan.
The club member here would still use the Essex motor over the Cologne even today, current project is an Australian Bolwell MK7
Russ NZ
yes I meant that converting the steering on an Alpine to R&P using MGB arms etc is so easy and requires no casting and machining of arms etc. We didn't know about this back in the 70's. It's also easier for you LHD guys if converting to a V8 that you don't have the problem of the water pump elbow around the rack pinion we have on RHD cars.
The V6 motor under discussion appears to be the Granada version of the Essex that was in the UK Capri and had some differences from the V6 in the MK4 Ford Zephyr, namely the sump bowl is at the rear, the dip stick is on the LH side and the front cover is different to the std Essex V6, pic circa 1977 attached showing the cover on the bench vice in the top lh corner.
I drove this yellow V6 Alpine and it drove front heavy in my view, owner admits as much even today and agrees R&P steering and moving the motor back a tad ala Tiger would've been better.
Early Essex motors had a tendency to shear the end off the oil pump drive as it was very long also the gen/alternator position was changed from left side to right side ,the early Essex ran an off-motor cooling fan.
The club member here would still use the Essex motor over the Cologne even today, current project is an Australian Bolwell MK7
Russ NZ
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DanR
Diamond Level Sponsor
Thanks much for the insight and your experiences.
I have only recently become acquainted with the Cologne engines.
Even as I have gained experience and experimented with them, they are more than satisfactory for my projects.
I love driving my Commodore Blue V6. It is rather swift for such a small engine as the 2.8 V6 Cologne. Simple to build and maintain (so far)
I like the idea of NOT changing the front suspension and steering.
As for the Headers, I believe here too, I have designed some that are straight back (not out the side) more than adequate to get the engine in the car, function well and eliminate dragging on ramps, speed bumps etc.
I also believe there is a solution to the persistent difficult problem of connecting the radiator hoses for the engine in an Alpine. In lieu of swapping the top hose connection to the right side and the bottom to the left. Just modify the bottom right to a 90 elbow "under the tank"and route the hose to the left. There is plenty of room.
What seems to be a problem (the biggest)for the conversion of the 2.8 V6 Mustang II is obtaining the bellhousing with the crank for the throw out bearing. On this, I suggest perhaps going to an internal hyd release bearing (ramclutches.com ). There seems to be lots of opposition to the hyd system even though there are millions of automobiles utilizing them.
What is always most plentiful is what we take advantage of, you have the Essex we have the Cologne.
My plans are to continue installing the 2.8's and finishing the 4.0 V6 that is is one of my Alpines.
I would appreciate updates on your work,
As always Keep'em-on-the-road
I have only recently become acquainted with the Cologne engines.
Even as I have gained experience and experimented with them, they are more than satisfactory for my projects.
I love driving my Commodore Blue V6. It is rather swift for such a small engine as the 2.8 V6 Cologne. Simple to build and maintain (so far)
I like the idea of NOT changing the front suspension and steering.
As for the Headers, I believe here too, I have designed some that are straight back (not out the side) more than adequate to get the engine in the car, function well and eliminate dragging on ramps, speed bumps etc.
I also believe there is a solution to the persistent difficult problem of connecting the radiator hoses for the engine in an Alpine. In lieu of swapping the top hose connection to the right side and the bottom to the left. Just modify the bottom right to a 90 elbow "under the tank"and route the hose to the left. There is plenty of room.
What seems to be a problem (the biggest)for the conversion of the 2.8 V6 Mustang II is obtaining the bellhousing with the crank for the throw out bearing. On this, I suggest perhaps going to an internal hyd release bearing (ramclutches.com ). There seems to be lots of opposition to the hyd system even though there are millions of automobiles utilizing them.
What is always most plentiful is what we take advantage of, you have the Essex we have the Cologne.
My plans are to continue installing the 2.8's and finishing the 4.0 V6 that is is one of my Alpines.
I would appreciate updates on your work,
As always Keep'em-on-the-road
If I was in the US I would be going the tried and true route as to V6 conversions, why re-design the wheel. The guy here spent a fortune as compared with the Alpine's value in the 70's simply because he was a true enthusiast, meaning he did not count the money spent and the final result was just fantastic. Funny thing the next owner of the car later removed the V6 and installed a V8. Someone got the benefit of a very sweet worked over Granada V6.