Maiden Voyage

[mint 61]

Got to take my 61 S2 on it's first road test since probably around 1982. Here's the good, bad, and the ugly.

The Good:

I got it at a pretty good idle before I left the house, and gave it a much needed bath. It still had a pretty nice shine under all that dust. The brake master and caliper rebuild seemed to be successful, and the clutch master and slave as well.



The Bad:
It developed a pretty good shimmy at around 40mph, I'm pretty sure it's just flat spots on the old tires, I'm pretty surprised they even held air after sitting flat for so long. There's a fair amount of valve noise. Is that just that "british sound"? The lifters all looked brand new, I think the PO did a valve job on it.
Ignition light is staying on, ammeter reads just below 0, less when I turn the headlights on, so this tells me it's working. Can't figure this out, the generator is charging according to my tester, new VR, all contacts at VR, Fuse Block, etc, greased with dielectric grease. There was one particular start that the ammeter jumped around all over the place for about 2 seconds, that's the only time it's ever showed a charge. While typing this I realized I haven't checked the main ground. Any other ideas?

The starter only partially engages about 1 in 10 times, making that grinding sound of gears grinding on gears, ideas? The other 9 out of 10 it works fine.

The Ugly:

My drive was about 2 miles to my folks house down the street, about 2/3 of the way there it stalled on me coming down the hill, I kicked in third and restarted on the fly, then it died on me at the bottom at a stop sign. It would start back up run for about 5-10 seconds with some choke manipulation, and die. Ended up towing it with my Dad's tractor up to the house. It sat for about 2 hrs, fired up ran fine and drove it home. Vapor lock maybe? Any remedies? Has anybody insulated the fuel line that comes across the top from the pump to the carbs? Seems like this would heat up and cause a vapor lock. It seemed to be linked to the temp.

 

[Greggers]

Valve noise. It's my understanding that a little valve noise is common, and you have bigger problems if you have no valve noise. But by your description, it seems like you have more than a little. Be sure to do a valve check/adjustment when the engine is HOT. The WSM gives a decent description of the proper procedure, but I understand there's a quicker criss-cross method that I'm waiting to hear about. According to the WSM, .012 in/.014 ex is the standard. Tiger Tom suggested to me that 10/12 is preferable. But don't quote me on any of this, as I'm not familiar with S2 engines.

I can't help you much on the charging issues.

Some folks will tell you that if your fuel tank hasn't been cleaned/recoated, that your driving probably dislodged some black gunk from inside the tank and clogged the filter. Don't know, as I have no experience with that. That could be it. Vapor lock doesn't seem likely. In these cars, that usually manifests itself as a non-start condition after the car's been sitting for a bit. Five minutes after running, fine. 20 minutes, won't start. After cool down, fine.

As for insulating the fuel line, Tiger Tom recommended searching eBay Motors for fiberglass sleeve. He says its the best heat shield out there for fuel lines. I haven't tested this myself.

 

[mint 61]

Thanks Greggers, I don't think the valve noise is any more than normal, but I'm gonna check it out. Dropped the tank, acid washed it, redcoated it, blew out the fuel line. I suspect there still may have been a some crud in the fuel line though, we'll see if it happens again.

 

[mint 61]

Pic attached

I attached a pic.

 

[Tom H]

you imply that these are 1982 tires. !! Don't go too far from home nor faster than 25-35 MPH until you get new tires.

Yes, your ammeter is working and it may be telling you that the charging system is NOT working. You say that the ammeter goes further below zero when you turn the lights on. That's pretty normal for a generator (not alternator) at idle. If you rev the engine to 2500 or so, does the ammeter go positive? UIf so, all seems OK to me. If not you have a problem. Not sure what you mean by "generator is working according to my tester" . Do you mean when tested in the bench? The WSM has a pretty good step by ste way to test each part of your charging system.

Tom

 

[mint 61]

Yes, I know it's not a good idea to ride on those tires, just a quick jaunt up the country road a low speeds though. I have some alloys on backorder from VB, waiting on those for tires.

The ammeter doesn't move in relation to RPMs (not charging). It stays just below zero with no headlights, etc on. While idling, I pulled the wires from the generator off of the voltage reg to see if I had current from the generator, I do, about 30v. The vr appears to be new, it's from the box of parts my father in law had stashed away. What are the chances that both the new and old vr's are bad?

The thing that makes me wonder is the one time that the ammeter jumped around all over the place for about 2 seconds upon starting. That's the only real action I've ever gotten from it. HMMMMMMMMMMM....

 

[Tom H]

Mint, these voltage regulators consist of coils and contacts. You say you have a "new" VR. Any idea how "new"? That is, how long ago was it made. If it has been sitting around for years, even if unused, I would expect that the contacts inside are quite oxidized and not really making good contact. This would also explain the momentary good operation you may have observed. It's been over 40 years since I last worked on one of these coil and contact regulators, but I would take the cover off and very lightly polish the contacts with a very fine sandpaper, and see if that solves the problem.

This section of WSM 145 for the Series V covers the generator and coil/ contact VR, even tho not used in most ( any? ) Series 5. I think it's pretty close , of not exactly what is used on your car.
http://www.rootes1725cc.info/wsm145/WSM_N/N.htm

By the way, when you pulled the wires off the Gen and read 30 V, that tells you that you have VOLTAGE, and is a good first step to test the gen. But that does not test the CURRENT capability. For an analogy, imagine you had a lot of gunk in the water pipes in your home. You could test the water pressure (with all the faucets OFF) and find it OK. But as soon as you try to take a shower, there is liitle flow. Of course testing the current output of a generator is a good bit more difficult, and maybe we can solve the issue with other steps, but just want you to understand that your Voitage test, while a good first step, does not tell you for sure that the Gen is OK.

Tom

 

[Mike O'D]

Mint,

Nice looking car. Seems like you don't see many in black - looks sharp!

Mike

 

[mint 61]

Thanks Mike, still do for some polishing, but it's in really good shape.

Tom, I suppose you're saying I need to test the amperage? The VR has been sitting around for a long time, this will be the first thing I check tonight.

 

[Nickodell]

you imply that these are 1982 tires. !! Don't go too far from home nor faster than 25-35 MPH until you get new tires.
Tom

I was about to comment on this but you beat me to it. Driving at anything over walking pace on 31-year-old tires is asking for the Grim Reaper to come calling.

Tom Macahill, who used to write the motoring section in Mechanix Illustrated, had acquaintances with near-death and one actual fatality from blowouts. One bit I remember almost verbatim from his article, although it's more than 40 years since he wrote it, was about a good friend who invited him to come for a drive in his newly-restored 1938 BMW328.

Macahill looks at the tires, and notices they are a kind Continental don't make any more, and so at least 30 years old. His friend says "I've had them off the rims and checked out, and I'm having some shipped the same size from Pirelli."

"Great," says Macahill. Let me know when you've got them. As it is now I won't even sit in it."

 

[mint 61]

Point taken guys, she'll be in the garage until the new tires are on.

In other news, Eureka!, I've got a charge! I took the VR apart last night and cleaned the contacts, they were a little crusty. Now the ammeter is showing a charge, just over 0 at idle, but it does get better when revved. I think I'll still need to adjust the contacts on the VR to see if I can get a little more charge. It still drops below 0 with the headlights on. What kind of charge should I expect out of this old generator?

 

[Tom H]

It still drops below 0 with the headlights on.

The key question is does this happen at idle or at 2500 RPM and higher. If at idle, this is normal. Generators, unlike alternators, put out very little current at idle. But if it's still discharging at road speed, then you have a problem.

Glad the contact cleaning worked.

Tom

 

[mint 61]

To my recollection it still dropped below 0 with headlights on at higher RPMs, gonna run some more tests this weekend. I'll probably end up pulling the generator and going over it too.

 

[Nickodell]

Check the brushes. They do wear down in time to the point that the springs can no longer keep them in contact with the commutator. By the way, if you do check them, don't make the mistake of sanding or polishing off the gray film on the commutator. This is "plated" [the exact process is called electrophoresis] on by the brushes and is essential for proper commutation. Any good electric motor repair shop will be able to supply new brushes.

 

[agmason54]

hey minty

I dig yer ride.I have its twin from NV that Mike OD turned me on to.I also have ablackSl being painted plus this S3shown here.come visit if you are near in yourSll and see my vast horde
Later
AlbertMason
Lisbon Ohio

 

[Jay Laifman]

On the valves, one thing I learned with a different car is that over the years, the tips of the rockers riding on the top of the valve stem develop a groove for the tip of the valve stem. When you slide a valve gap blade through there, it bridges the groove and you end up with a grossly adjusted valve - resulting in noise. For my other car, I was able to ship my rockers to a guy who could grind them and reharden them. He had a jig made just for that type of car (Porsche 356/912). I don't know what is available for Sunbeams. It made an amazing difference in the car.

 

[alpine_64]

IIRC Delta who did all the cam grinds for the alpines also refaced the rockers and was recommended they be done with the new cam. They were fast turn around and well priced from what i remember reading.

The other thing to do if there is a groove is to use a wire.. wont correct the wear.. but will give an accurate gap.