Lowering an 67' SV Front End

[SoCal'beaming]

Hi All ....

I'm going to be adjusting the attitude (rake) of my 67' SV here in the very near future as I finish the eng. and move onto the front end, steering and rims and tires .... I've read most if not all of the posts here ... past and present ... not worried 'bout the rear as that's an easy fix .... custom coils would be nice but $$'s .. any leads to a good shop in socal? .... cutting and setting them on themselves with heat and grinding is an option . and I've done it on other cars with good results as long as ya don't overheat the whole coil and I think I read a post that "BillBlue" commented on that he did his coils that way with good results. What I'm wondering about is I read somewhere and now can't find the article was that "some" MG or other British car coil springs will work? ... I've checked some sites and have not found any suitable springs that came on any MG's... anyone else heard of this? .. I'm not worried about screwing up my coils as I have another set.

... Thanks for any insight posted ..... David

 

[260Alpine]

72 and later MG Midget. Stock Midget are 10 1/4" free length and stock 270lb rate. After market 340 and 400 rate. Series 3 Alpine are 11 1/4", 1" shorter than series 4 & 5.

[urlhttps://www.spridgetmania.com/part/C-2A4214-HD/Front-Coil-Spring-Competition-Pair-400-Lb-Sprite---Mg-Midget[/url]

 

[SoCal'beaming]

Hi Jim ...Thanks ... I did some more searching and came up with these spec.s for post 72'

stock.. free length- 9.4 in.s .. coil ID- 3.125 in.s(mean dia.- 3.625) .. spring wire Dia.- 0.54 ... spring rate- 271 lb. in. and 750 lb. working load. ....

So by my calculations ... that's an outer spring dia. between 4.133 and 4.165 inches ? and the SV coil spring spec.s are free height 12.62 in.s ... coil outer dia. 4.47 in.s ... but can't find spring rates or working load rates for any Alp. Did find an old thread but there was some different rates posted .... one being between 165-185 lb. ins and 210 lb.in. ? ...

The difference in spring dia.s is about a 1/4" give or take ... would that be a problem? The biggest difference I can see is the free height ... 3 inches is a little more then I want to dump the front I think.

I have a buddy with a sett of MG Midget springs he doesn't need and he said he'd ship to me if they where what I needed ... not so sure now. I'll wait to see if anyone else chimes in on the subject before excepting them as partial payment on work done for him.

..... David

 

[260Alpine]

David, I think the 9.4 are lowering springs and 10.2 are stock length. I'll check my source. Edit: Checked info and 76 and later were 10.2. I think the 270 lb is too light, 340 close to stock Alpine and 400 close to Tiger rate.

 

[SoCal'beaming]

Thanks Jim ... My first thought was an Mg is a lighter car than an Alp? ... Had read somewhere, maybe on this from someone used a MG Midget coil spring setup, might have been aftermarket springs? ... Here's the threads I was looking at for MG coil spring rates ... http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/suspensn/fs113.htm

and http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/springs.htm

and the thread talking about the Alpine coils. http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/archive/index.php?t-16296.html

Not sure what to make outa' all this info .. was trying to save some $$'s on this one

..... David

 

[260Alpine]

David, I would try the 76 and newer 10.2" Midget springs. Free length and laden length may differ compared to Alpine stock springs. Bashby found 210 lb rate for stock Alpine? so 270 lb would not sag as much.

 

[260Alpine]

This thread answers a lot of questions plus the MG Midget option:

http://sunbeamalpine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14995&page=2

 

[SoCal'beaming]

Thanks again Jim .... Think I'll mull over the options and in the mean time cut and re-work the extra set I have and see how it sits and rides before I commit any $$'s to anything specific .... and hope others will chime in on the options and other Ideas!

.... Have a Great day! ..... David

 

[Barry]

According to WSM-145, a S-V Alpine only has 2.75" of compression travel in the front suspension.

Lowering the front end with shorter springs reduces the compression travel by the amount that the front end is lowered. Lowering the front end by 1" would only leave 1.75" of compression travel. Lowering the front end by 2" would only leave 0.75" of compression travel.

I don't think that is enough for a street car, but .....

Just my opinion, YMMV.

 

[SoCal'beaming]

Yep Barry .... My thoughts exactly ... still mulling the options for a better stance on this 67'.

......... David

 

[alpine_64]

David,

Ideally you want a pair of the late series Hillman drop spindles, 1" lower without changing springs ride quality etc.

Pm me with your email as I can't email you via the forum. Oh and I did get your pm the other day

 

[SoCal'beaming]

David,

Ideally you want a pair of the late series Hillman drop spindles, 1" lower without changing springs ride quality etc.

Pm me with your email as I can't email you via the forum. Oh and I did get your pm the other day

Hi Michael .... Been looking for an affordable pair locally here, no luck so far, even a parts car might be ok iffin' the wife won't object. Last sett I saw sold for $650.00 ... Not going to do it that way at that price. Maybe I should buy a late Hillman ... swap spindles, cut the springs to bring it back down to stock and sell her with full disclosure ... Nope! .... Isn't it funny how "Ideally" seems to always come with a LARGE price tag.

........ David

** PM sent!

 

[Barry]

Something to think about.

Compression travel on the "ball joint" Alpine front suspension is limited by the rubber bump stop on the lower A-arm contacting the metal bump stop pad on the outer end of the front suspension crossmember. It may be possible to cut off some of the rubber bump stop to gain additional compression travel. You would have to make very sure that the additional compression travel would not cause ball joint binding, shock absorber "bottoming out", steering interference, etc.


The "right" way to lower the front end is by using drop spindles. The attached picture shows a "ball joint" Alpine spindle and a late ('65 & up ???) model Hillman Minx spindle. Can't remember where the picture came from, but I have had it for several years.

 

[todd reid]

see above posts

 

[SoCal'beaming]

Something to think about.

Compression travel on the "ball joint" Alpine front suspension is limited by the rubber bump stop on the lower A-arm contacting the metal bump stop pad on the outer end of the front suspension crossmember. It may be possible to cut off some of the rubber bump stop to gain additional compression travel. You would have to make very sure that the additional compression travel would not cause ball joint binding, shock absorber "bottoming out", steering interference, etc.


The "right" way to lower the front end is by using drop spindles. The attached picture shows a "ball joint" Alpine spindle and a late ('65 & up ???) model Hillman Minx spindle. Can't remember where the picture came from, but I have had it for several years.

Thanks Barry for the pic. ... There always helpful! .... I have several pic.s and that one as well ... here's the C.A.T. link for that pic. ... I think that was the person who sold a set on ebay for 650.00 .. in an auction of course. http://catmbr.org/VB_forum/showthread.php?t=1953

This is just a "wee" bit ahead of this part of my build, almost done wit' the motor and such .... just wanted to be ready when I get into the front end which will be soon. Thanks as well for the all the front end link considerations(ball joint binding,bump stop bottoming etc.) all things to take into account, for sure and certain! ... here's a pic of the car I'm working on .. It's not current ... but when it first arrived here and after a little scuffing, with the addition of a Dynaplastics hardtop. The front end is a little to high for my taste.

** Did ya' notice the "custom" throttle bracket the PO installed?

..... David

 

[Toyanvil]

Not sure about the late series cars, but on my series 2 I just swapped the stock top rubber insulator with one from a Mustang II I think. Remember one inch off the spring length will lower the car more then an inch, do to all the angles.

 

[SoCal'beaming]

Thanks John ... I'll look into the top Mustang rubbers as well .. plus a wheel and tire profile change all add into the equation as well ... The early Alpines sit lower in the front stock so one inch or so would make a big difference in there stance ... might try that with my 62' even though I like the stock look she has right now. The SV's have a much taller stance up front and just look very out of proportion with the rear though.


..... David


** John .. What's the trick to posting the larger photos?

 

[Toyanvil]

Click on the icon that looks like a mountain with a sun and paste the URL of your picture into it. To get your URL, right click on your picture go to properties and the URL will be there.

 

[SoCal'beaming]

PM sent John

..... David