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Late 2.8 V6 Timing Cover vs Mutt II solution?

husky drvr

Platinum Level Sponsor
Jim. I searched for the past two years for anything related without success. Maybe someone will come along with an answer.

I have a late model water pump stuffed away somewhere that I will experiment with soon.

Dan,

Not having a V6, I only follow the discussions about them to see what new/old problems are being solved and how.

What I seem to recall about the "possible fix and discussion are (and I may be more wrong than right):

1) Jose said the later pump carries two bearings instead of the earlier pump's one, making the housing deeper

2) You'll probably have to search back to between the time Jim finished Vader but before its sale and maybe a little later. I think I recall that the possible mod came up in a slow period dealing with v6 conversions and that it was not done by Jim but another poster who had modified his pump not knowing it wasn't supposed to be done that way :eek::). I've wondered why more follow-up was not done with this possibility.

3) Here's the catch - I do not know what either pump looks like and might be ALL wrong - what I THINK I recall is that the later pump has an extra large , maybe threaded, boss to mount the fan clutch. The procedure I think I recall is that the boss and shaft were cut and the fan mount flange pressed closer to the pump housing or maybe a new mount flange was made and pressed on close to the housing.

Maybe this will give you some search help and/or direction to think about possible options.

Please send all royalties to SAOCA. :):)
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
I found the new Late series Ranger/Bronco II Water Pump I had stuffed away. Will take PICs with comparison to the Mutt II.

Thanks Don for your insight and memory.
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Here are a few PIC's of the two different water pumps
1st and 2nd PIC's are: The Mutt II on the left..... Ranger/Bronco II on the right (taller)
3rd PIC is: the Mutt II
4th PIC is the Ranger/Bronco II
5th PIC shows 4 & 3/16" clearance from water pump pulley to face of the shroud for the radiator mount, this is the Mutt II.
6th PIC shows 3 & 3/16" clearance from Ranger/Bronco II water pump to the face of the shroud for the radiator mount, this is the Ranger/Bronco II.

Anybody recognize the Framing Square? It is two (2) inches wide about the thickness of the Alpine radiator....

So what I have learned is:
1. The difference between the two water pumps is only one (1) inch.
2. The Ranger/Bronco II pulley flange is larger in dia than the mutt II so the pulleys are not interchangeable.
3. Possible to utilize the R/BII timing cover and water pump in the V6 Conversion.... If you can get clearance of one (1) inch more between the radiator and the fan. Ha! And they said it couldn't be done.
 

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hartmandm

Moderator
Diamond Level Sponsor
I could certainly be wrong on this, but I am virtually certain Jim Ellis documented his Ranger pump modification, and it wasn't what you posted from Jose. If I am right, it would be in the V6 Articles Archives I saved years ago and which Mike Hartman added to his website. Unfortunately, I don't seem able to search the text in the pdf's, so I haven't been able to find it. But, I am willing to bet that it is in the long thread Jim created during his Vader build (Jim E. Parts 1, 2 and 3 in the Archive). Maybe someone else has the ability to search the document?

I am OCR'ing those archive documents. The result will be a single document that can be easily searched. I hope to complete it soon.

Mike
 

hartmandm

Moderator
Diamond Level Sponsor
FYI - I'm still working on a single searchable document for those archives. Cleaning up the mistakes made in the OCR process is more time consuming than I anticipated.

Mike
 

Alpine 1789

SAOCA President
Diamond Level Sponsor
Thanks, Mike. There is a lot of information in there and I am sure it will be a huge benefit to the community when you are done!
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
THANK YOU, Mike!! I started this morning reading..... looks like it will be a good reference tool to gather data and compare to current activity/changes.
 

chuckmeng

Donation Time
I have a few more PICs to show.

For an explanation of what I have done by mating the Late Series Timing Cover (TC) and the Early Water Pump (WP) is the use of a piece of the rubber in the 3rd & 4th PICs cut to fit in the square hole of the Mutt II water pump.

Clean / prep the area with the Loctite SF 770, apply the Adhesive RP 1000 and clamp the rubber in place until dry. I had to trim the excess rubber that was left sticking above the plate that accepts the gasket between the timing cover and the water pump.

In the 5th PIC you can see the rubber cemented in place and sandwiched between the two components (TC & WP)
The 6th PIC depicts the bolt differences between the Timing Covers. Here the Ranger/Bronco II TC is mated to the Modified Mutt II Thermostat Housing & Mutt II WP. The Ranger/ Bronco II Thermostat will not work because of the need to utilize the bypass fitting (three eared) that fastens to the rear of the TC. Also the bolt pattern is off somewhat too!

Notice the one bolt that runs outside of the TC housing? Alignment differences are satisfied this way.
Hi Dan,
was wondering if you had a spare 2.8 Ranger/Bronco timing cover you would want to sell, or know of one.
I would like to get rid of the congested mess I have in my Spitfire6 down there and I think this rout is the way to do it.
I might try welding in an aluminium plug to the water pump.
 

chuckmeng

Donation Time
Hi Dan
I was wondering if you had a spare 2.8 Ranger/Bronco timing cover you would sell, or know of one.
I would like to make this switch on my Spitfir6
to do away with the congested mess I have down there and think this is the way to go.
I would weld in an aluminium plug into the water pump.
By the way I now have your brackets set up for my alternator. Looks good.
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Hi Dan
I was wondering if you had a spare 2.8 Ranger/Bronco timing cover you would sell, or know of one.
I would like to make this switch on my Spitfir6
to do away with the congested mess I have down there and think this is the way to go.
I would weld in an aluminium plug into the water pump.
By the way I now have your brackets set up for my alternator. Looks good.


CHuck, I have a Ranger Timing cover avaiable.

Let me dig it out.... will call or you can call me.

DanR
 
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